Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 But we, uh, usually start on time. So, um, we won't make any exception for that today. I want to let folks know that we will be recording this so that we can put it up on our podcast platform. Um, and we have the replays on as well. So you'll be able to go back and, um, and listen. So Jack, why don't you start introducing yourself and, um, let us know a little bit about your background and, uh, how this became your cause, uh, celeb.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 Sure. Wonderful. Um, I have a bit of an interesting background. Um, I, uh, it also started at university, I guess you would say, uh, we ended up winning the, I got involved with the student union there. Um, and we were just a group of people that liked, that wanted a cheap beer at the university pub really. And, uh, we ended up running a, um, uh, the world's largest Toga party, um, uh, as one of the events at the student union. Um, and, uh, I guess our ethos there was, uh, that it should be far less political because, um, uh, the previous administrations of the student union, uh, had done some pretty awful things and were very divisive. Um, and we're using it just as a, I guess, more of as a political tool than being able to do good and, you know, fun, cool things for students.
Speaker 1 00:01:35 So we, I did that, um, ended up becoming president of the student union. Uh, I then set up an alternative student union, um, uh, peak body because the other peak body wanted to charge us. I think it was about $80,000 to affiliate with them. Um, and we went down to one of their conferences in the first year and they were trying to pass most motions, like, um, banning the Olympic games because it promotes competition, uh, uh, and, uh, increasing the age of abortion to two because of a mother has a right to abort the two year old child, like just crazy stuff that had nothing to do with students. So I set up an alternative to them that actually provided services to the student unions and then, and ended up coming across a gentleman by the name of Graham Haycroft, who had just started in its infancy and alternative nurses union.
Speaker 1 00:02:25 Um, and, uh, we sort of got together and then have really ramped up this sort of alternative, uh, union movement, uh, which I guess our mantra is protection without the politics. And, uh, more recently it's sort of become, uh, workers first business owners, first bureaucrats last. Um, uh, and given that we've moved into that space, I think we're at about 7,000 members in September and our members stance on this mandate stuff that's coming. Uh, we've now grown to 17,000 members in the course, um, members. And that's what I guess that's put us squarely in the fight. Um, the traditional, I guess you'd say labor Mo labor unions, which, uh, aligned with political parties, um, have been right in lock step with the government, both federal and state, uh, and have been pushing these, you know, lockdowns mandates, um, uh, as hard as they possibly can. And not everyone obviously believes in that a lot of people in Australia have been vaccinated of course, but, um, there are some that have been coerced into it and then some that just aren't comfortable with the government mandating these things and believe it should be personal choice. So I guess that's then become our, uh, marketplace.
Speaker 1 00:03:52 So that's, that's my very long story
Speaker 0 00:03:56 So that we can hear the sounds of Australia in the background. Sounds very tropical, uh, very wild. So, um, maybe just tell us a little bit about, uh, what is happening in Australia right now, how this got started. Um, and like, how does the lockdown and mandate, um, kind of stringency compared to other countries
Speaker 1 00:04:27 We've had some of the most severe lockdowns in Melbourne? Um, I think it became one of the most lost down cities in the world. Uh, and obviously still hadn't stopped the spread of army Chrome. Uh, we have had, uh, some of the most harsh mandates we've had school teachers mandated. We've had, um, nurses mandated, we've had police officers mandated, we've had thousands and thousands of people have lost their jobs, um, because of government mandates and not wanting to be able to government mandates. We've had QR codes and tracking, uh, uh, in all stores. So you can't go anywhere without the government knowing where you are, um, which has been, uh, it'll be interesting to see whether that disappears now. Um, a lot of these things, um, I brought, you know, safety measures them is very difficult to bring, uh, to walk them backwards. So, um, uh, but recently I think even as of today, they've changed the definition of a close contact, um, a close contact contacting, you know, we've had businesses decimated because we'd have one positive case come into a business.
Speaker 1 00:05:44 And then all of the staff will have to quarantine for seven days or more 14 days in some instances, um, even if they don't have a, uh, even if they don't test positive for COVID. So that obviously is having a huge impact on, um, say a restaurant, uh, who has someone coming into the, you know, into the shop. And then at that the shutdown throughout all their food, it's been quite devastating, same Steven, anecdotally, quite a lot of pubs that I used to go to have closed their doors for. Good. Um, and there's a lot of fully signs of globe and when you walk around the city, so, um, they've changed it as of today now that our close contact is only someone that you live with. Um, but they've kept the QR codes so interesting to see how long they keep that idea, say, they'll keep the QR codes, not for contact tracing, um, or for any health reasons, probably just cause I like to know where people are. Um, and I guess they now have only, just recently brought in the, um, uh, you know, the vaccine mandates as well. If you're on vaccinated in Australia, you know, allowed to go to a pub, um, you can't sit down and go to a cafe or a restaurant. Uh, you can't go to cinema. Um, basically anything that's fun. Um, if you're on vaccinated sort of locked out of at the moment,
Speaker 2 00:07:04 Scott, hi there, great. Uh, subject matter, uh, I'm glad you're, uh, out there fighting the good fight. Um, I'm, you know, I just think the stakes are too high. I don't care if anyone calls me a conspiracy theorist, it just, from my perspective, it seemed like Australia was starting to be like the people questioning the lab leak theory and Trina's involvement. And then, you know, it just, I don't know how much of this is a result of Chinese influence over Australian politicians. That just, that's just how it seems. I just, is it, does anyone have that same sense down there?
Speaker 1 00:07:47 Um, it look, honestly, I think it could just be that, um, Australians are far too trusting of government. Um, uh, and we don't have the, you know, history steeped in sort of, you know, um, uh, unnecessary, necessarily healthy skepticism of government. Um, you know, like the U S dollars and other countries around the world who then therefore if the back of that whole freedom. So Dealy, um, I don't think that we have that sort of in our DNA, uh, unfortunately, but obviously we do have quite a significant influence from China, whether it be, you know, them being our major trading partner and, um, uh, you know, they've, they've been putting some pretty severe sanctions on us recently for even daring to suggest. I think we were one of the first countries that came out, um, and said that we would like to look into whether it was a lab lake, um, prominence to Scott Morrison said that. And then off the back of that, we know got some pretty severe trade sanctions and, um, you know, obviously we're a natural resource company primarily and no not going to buy our eye on or do a lot of other things I've called to try and punish us for saying that. So, yeah, look, it's, it's probably not too far beyond the realms of possibility,
Speaker 0 00:09:09 Jack. Um, how are, you know, are people getting vaccinated, people who, who need the vaccine and want to take it? Um, how, how, how is that doing? I'm wondering, you know, we've seen in the United States that, uh, there's a hesitancy, I think part of that may be driven by politicisation and it's kind of seen as a partisan issue. Um, unfortunately by too many people, you know, on both sides of the aisle. Uh, is that something, I mean, I wouldn't think that would translate to Australia or is it that, you know, mandates are also maybe, um, driving some, some resistance?
Speaker 1 00:10:00 Well, it's interesting, there was no real opposition, uh, in Australia because, uh, our conservative, uh, we have a conservative government supposedly conservative government in, at the moment at the federal level, um, uh, running the country and they were the ones sort of leading the charge on this or, or, or if not leading the charge, they certainly abdicated their responsibility. Um, uh, well, I guess it was their area to legislate, but they formed this suit, new pseudo body called national cabinet, which was just a conglomeration of all the state premiers or mostly left wing and then sort of got bullied by them. So the country sort of been running by a group of our state premiers, um, and all these mandates had been brought in. So I guess it hasn't really become a politically political issue in so far as, um, both sides of politics have been pushing the mandates, which is then I think going to cause some serious fracturing of these major parties, uh, come the next election.
Speaker 1 00:11:01 I think there's going to be a huge minor party vote probably somewhere. Um, you know, don't hold me to this, but something maybe around 25%, 35, 30% primary, uh, will go to a minor party vote. So, um, and I think that's that in of itself has probably led to, um, more anger. I mean, we've seen some of the biggest protests in us. What we have seen is the biggest protests, uh, in Australia's history, you have, you know, 300,000 people, um, going to a protest in Melbourne, just in one city, um, or more so, uh, and I guess that comes from them feeling like there isn't an alternative voice. Um, you know, in the states, at least if you've got, you know, the Democrats sort of half a month side and one side, at least there's a couple of people, government talking about the pros and cons of mandates pros and cons of, and know that debate is fleshed out in Australia. We just haven't really had that debate because there hasn't been there haven't been too many people, um, I guess, picking up that cause apart from some of these minor parties, if that makes sense.
Speaker 0 00:12:09 Yeah. Yeah. Um, so really like there's no release valve, so people are, are, uh, there's no other alternatives that they have other than civil disobedience protests, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 00:12:23 Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I think there's now becoming a bit of a skepticism in these government departments and reporting bodies and the public health bureaucrats, um, who, you know, change all these rules on a dime and the rules have never made any logical sense, you know, um, for instance, you know, uh, uh, places of worship and churches were severely restricted, if not shut down at the same time, you know, uh, 50,000 people could attend a football game. So it just sort of, it just seems so out of whack and, and, you know, no government has ever released this public health advice that every morning on TV, they say, oh, this is probably the public health bus follow the public health of Boston then. Well, what is the public health advice?
Speaker 0 00:13:11 Right. So there's a sense that they're capricious or that they're, you know, the picking favorites. And at one point, you know, the, uh, one of the biggest collateral damage victims in the United States I think is, um, just our, our trust in public health, um, in, in science, I mean the science is supposed to be something objective, but when there's, um, an inability to even question it, or when there's censorship, uh, you know, also when public health officials say, oh, well I said that not necessarily because it was true, but because I wanted people not to buy masks and I wanted people to, you know, that, that there's a sense of it's a manipulated. Um, so, you know, we we've seen the rest of the world has seen these really frightening images from Australia of people getting handcuffed out in the park with their children, or, um, getting arrested, uh, for, for not wearing a mask or people being hunted down, uh, because they, they were out bootlegging, uh, fast food, you know, are, are those, are those images like representative?
Speaker 0 00:14:41 Is it in a particular region of Australia? Was there a time, you know, for when certain or all of Australia that they were not allowed to go outside their house? Cause I mean, that's almost the impression that we're receiving is that you can't go outside your house in Australia, you have to wear a mask, uh, everywhere. Um, you know, also I think when you were talking about the differences between the United States and Australia in the United States, we have a strong commitment to federalism. Um, even our, our president, uh, Joe Biden, really running on a platform of saying, uh, that there was a federal solution and that, um, that Donald Trump was responsible for, um, the spread of COVID and for the lives loss, because he hadn't properly implemented a, um, an aggressive federal solution. So now we're seeing him saying kind of going back to, uh, what had been, uh, Trump's position, which was that, you know, this is something that states have got to solve, and we can see that, you know, w one state has this solution, California and New York have extremely strict lockdowns mandates, um, Florida and, uh, South Dakota have different policies, so people can, can move.
Speaker 0 00:16:16 I mean, has there been also a, uh, a difference in how different regions in Australia are, um, implementing measures or is it pretty much all top down, one size fits all?
Speaker 1 00:16:31 Look in the last couple of it's only been in the last three months that there has been probably a times in some of the sites and how they've responded. And I think one of our problems is we don't have enough states in Australia, um, and it sort of becomes too easy for them to get together, uh, uh, instead of collude and come up with this sector for the same outcome. But, um, uh, what you're talking about in terms of people being hunted down for, you know, sitting in the park and trying to get some, some during lockdowns absolutely was a, a thing that was happening in Australia, um, uh, all over Australia. Uh, the thing got particularly bad in Melbourne, uh, down in Victoria with, um, uh, you know, we're going door to door, uh, uh, barging, Ghandour sorry. David arrested a pregnant woman for posting on Facebook, um, about, you know, potentially attending a rally, um, you know, some pretty horrific footage around that.
Speaker 1 00:17:28 Um, it's they had a curfew in, uh, Victoria where they, you know, weren't allowed to go out at night time. Uh, I know from my own experience stuff in Queensland during the walk downs, when you weren't allowed to go outside, there was police helicopters flying a lot. I live in the city in an apartment, it was police helicopters flying around a low level of the apartments to see whether people dead to have visitors over to their place or dead to have a party with, you know, 5, 6, 7 people. Um, so it's pretty dystopian stuff. Um, uh, uh, that was occurring in Australia. And it's not as bad as that now. Um, and in new south Wales, we finally got a premiere of its, um, I guess, standing up and probably leading the country out of this and showing some common sense, uh, probably even more so than the prime minister, uh, fella bothered him prototype, um, and is held, is held the lawn. He's only just coming, uh, recently took the job sort of semi-recently and is showing a lot of common sense in this stuff. Um, we haven't got to the stage yet where we're re employing the thousands of workers that were laid off, you know, um, wanting to have some questions are answered about the vaccines first, before they got them, but, um, you know, hopefully we'll get there eventually
Speaker 0 00:18:53 Lawrence.
Speaker 3 00:18:57 So the question I'm curious about would be in regards to, I guess, workers in the unions on that level. So we have unions here, big places like New York and California, they have them Texas where I'm from they're here, don't have as big of a presence because it's a right to work state, but what I've seen from Australia and what I've seen from other places there have been seemingly this discord among the workers who are hesitant for the vaccines, but then sort of this people who are supposedly to represent them, not actually doing so or saying that no, you must comply. And that seems to have been what I've heard, some of the issues in Austria,
Speaker 0 00:19:44 Uh, usually start on time. So, um, we won't make any exception for that today. I want to let folks know that we will be recording this so that we can put it up on our podcast platform. Um, and we have the replays on as well. So you'll be able to go back and, um, and listen. So Jack, why don't you start introducing yourself and, um, let us know a little bit about your background and, uh, how this became your cause, uh, celeb.
Speaker 1 00:20:22 Sure. Wonderful. Um, I'll have a bit of an interesting background. Um, I, uh, it also started at university, I guess you would say, uh, we ended up winning the, I got involved with the student union there. Um, and we were just a group of people that like, that wanted a cheap beer at the university pub really. And, uh, we ended up running a, um, the world's largest Toga party, um, uh, as one of the events, the student union, um, and, uh, I guess our ethos there was, uh, that it should be far less political because, um, uh, the previous administrations of the student union, uh, had done some pretty awful things and were very divisive. Um, and we're using it just as a, I guess, more of as a political tool than being able to do good and, you know, fun, cool things for students.
Speaker 1 00:21:19 So we, I did that, um, ended up becoming president of the student union. Uh, I then set up an alternative student union, um, uh, peak body because the other peak body wanted to charge us. I think it was about $80,000 to affiliate with them. Um, and we went down to one of their conferences in the first year and they were trying to pass most motions, like, um, banning the Olympic games because it promotes competition, uh, uh, and, uh, increasing the age of abortion to two because of, you know, a mother has a right to abort the two year old child, like just crazy stuff that had nothing to do with students. So I set up an alternative to them that actually provided services to the student unions, and then ended up coming across a gentleman by the name of Graham Haycroft, who had just started in its infancy in alternative nurse's union.
Speaker 1 00:22:09 Um, and, uh, we sort of got together and then have really ramped up this sort of alternative, uh, union movement, uh, which I guess our mantra is protection without the politics. And, uh, more recently it's sort of become, uh, workers, first business owners, first bureaucrats lost. Um, uh, and given that we've moved into that space, I think we're at about 7,000 members in September and our member stands on this mandate stuff that's coming. Uh, we've now grown to 17,000 members in the course impact on, um, members. And that's what I guess that's put us squarely in the fight. Um, the traditional, uh, I guess you'd say labor Mo labor unions, which are aligned with political parties, um, have been right in lock step with the government, both federal and state, uh, and have been pushing these, you know, lockdowns mandates, um, uh, as hard as they possibly can. And not everyone obviously believes in that a lot of people in Australia have been vaccinated of course, but, um, there are some that have been coerced into it and then some that just aren't comfortable with the government mandating these things and believe it should be personal choice. So I guess that's then become our, uh, marketplace so that,
Speaker 0 00:23:39 So that we can hear the sounds of Australia in the background sounds very tropical, uh, very wild. So, um, maybe just tell us a little bit about, uh, what is happening in Australia right now, how this got started. Um, and like, how does the lockdown and mandate, um, kind of stringency compared to other countries
Speaker 1 00:24:11 We've had some of the most severe lockdowns in Melbourne? Um, I think it became one of the most lost down cities in the world. Uh, and obviously still hasn't stopped the spread of Loma Chrome. Uh, we have had, uh, some of the most harsh mandates we've had school teachers mandated. We've had, um, nurses mandated, we've had police officers mandated, we've had thousands and thousands of people have lost their jobs, um, because of government mandates and not wanting to be able to government mandates. We've had QR codes and tracking, uh, uh, in all stores. So you can't go anywhere without the government knowing where you are, um, which has been, uh, it'll be interesting to see whether that disappears now. Um, a lot of these things, um, abroad, you know, safety measures, whatever is very difficult to bring, uh, to walk them backwards. So, um, uh, but recently I think even as of today, they've changed the definition of a close contact, um, a close contact thing.
Speaker 1 00:25:22 You know, we've had businesses decimated because we'd have one positive case come into a business, and then all of the staff will have to quarantine for seven days or more 14 days in some instances, um, even if they don't have a, uh, even if they don't test positive for COVID. So that obviously is having a huge impact on, um, say a restaurant, uh, who has someone coming into the shop. And then at that the shutdown throughout all their food, it's been quite devastating. And the Steven anecdotally, quite a lot of pubs that I used to go to have closed their doors for. Good. Um, and there's a lot of fully signs and when you walk around the city, so, um, they've changed it as of today. Now that a close contact is only someone that you live with. Um, but they've kept the QR codes so interesting to see how long they keep that idea, say, they'll keep the QR codes, not for contact tracing, um, or for any health reasons, probably just cause I like to know where people are. Um, and I guess that they now have only just recently brought in the, um, uh, you know, the vaccine mandates as well. If you're on vaccinated in Australia, you know, allowed to go to a pub, um, you can't sit down and go to a cafe or a restaurant. Uh, you can't go to cinema basically anything that's fun. Um, if you're on vaccinated, you said a locked out of, at the moment,
Speaker 0 00:26:48 Scott.
Speaker 2 00:26:51 Hi there. Great. Uh, subject matter, uh, I'm glad you're, uh, out there fighting the good fight. Um, I'm, you know, I just think the stakes are too high. I don't care if anyone calls me a conspiracy theorist. It just, from my perspective, it seemed like Australia was starting to be like the people questioning the lab leak theory and China's involvement. And then, you know, it just, I don't know how much of this is a result of Chinese influence over Australian politicians. That just, that's just how it seems. I just, is it, does anyone have that same sense down?
Speaker 1 00:27:31 Um, it, honestly, I think it, it could just be that, um, Australians are far too trusting of government. Um, uh, and we don't have the, you know, history steeped in sort of, you know, um, uh, unnecessary, necessarily healthy skepticism of government. Um, you know, like the U S dollars and other countries around the world who then therefore if the back of that whole freedom. So Dealy, um, I don't think that we have that sort of in our DNA, uh, unfortunately, but obviously we do have quite a significant influence from China, whether it be, you know, them being our major trading partner and, um, uh, you know, they've been putting some pretty severe sanctions on us recently for even daring to suggest. I think we were one of the first countries that came out, um, and said that we would like to look into whether it was a lab lake. Um, I think, uh, prime minister, Scott Morrison said that. And then off the back of that, we've got some pretty severe trade sanctions and, um, you know, obviously we're a natural resource company primarily, and no we're not going to buy our own or do a lot of other things I've called to try and punish us for saying that. So, yeah. Look, it's, it's probably not too far beyond the realms of possibility,
Speaker 0 00:28:53 Jack. Um, how are, are people getting vaccinated, people who, who need the vaccine and want to take it? Um, how, how, how has that doing wondering, you know, we've seen in the United States that, uh, there's a hesitancy, I think part of that may be, uh, driven by politicisation and it's kind of seen as a partisan issue. Um, unfortunately by too many people, you know, on both sides of the aisle, is that something, I mean, I wouldn't think that would translate to Australia or is it that, you know, mandates are also maybe, um, driving some, some resistance?
Speaker 1 00:29:44 Well, it's interesting, there was no real opposition, uh, in Australia because, uh, our conservative, uh, we have a conservative government or supposedly conservative government in, at the moment at the federal level, um, uh, running the country and they were the ones sort of leading the charge on this or, or, or if not leading the charge, they certainly abdicated their responsibility. Um, uh, well, I guess was their area to legislate, but they formed this new pseudo body called national cabinet, which was just a conglomeration of all the state premiers or mostly left wing and then sort of got bullied by them. So the country sort of been running by a group of our state premiers and all these mandates had been brought in. So I guess it hasn't really become a politically political issue in so far as, um, both sides of politics have been pushing the mandates, which is then I think going to cause some serious fracturing of these major parties, uh, come the next election.
Speaker 1 00:30:45 I think there's going to be a huge mana party vote probably somewhere. Um, you know, don't hold me to this, but something maybe around 25%, 35, 30% primary, uh, will go to a minor party vote. So, um, and I think that's that in of itself has probably led to, um, more anger. I mean, we've seen some of the biggest protests. What we have seen is the biggest protests, uh, in Australia's history, you have, you know, 300,000 people, um, going to a protest in Melbourne, just in one city or more so, uh, and I guess that comes from them feeling like there isn't an alternative voice. Um, you know, in the states, at least if you've got, you know, the Democrats sort of half on one side and one side, at least there's a couple of people, government talking about the pros and cons of mandates pros and cons of vaccination. And like, you know, that debate is fleshed out, but in Australia we just haven't really had that debate because there hasn't been there haven't been too many people, um, I guess, picking up that cause apart from some of these minor parties, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:31:53 Yeah. Um, so really like there's no release valve, so people are, are, uh, there's no other alternative that they have other than civil disobedience protests, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 00:32:07 Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I think there's now becoming a bit of a skepticism in these government departments and reporting bodies and the public health bureaucrats, um, who, you know, change all these rules on a dime and the rules have never made any logical sense, you know, um, for instance, you know, uh, uh, places of worship and churches were severely restricted, if not shut down at the same time, you know, uh, 50,000 people could attend a football game. So just sort of, it just seems so out of whack and, and, you know, no government has ever released this public health advice that every morning on TV, they say, oh, this is probably the public health public health of bias. And then w what is the public health advice,
Speaker 0 00:32:55 Right. So there's a sense that they're capricious or that they're, you know, the picking favorites. And at some point, you know, the, uh, one of the biggest collateral damage victims in the United States, I think is, um, just our, our trust in public health, um, in, in science, I mean, the least science is supposed to be something objective. Uh, but when there's, um, an inability to even question it, or when there's censorship, uh, you know, also when public health officials say, oh, well, I said that not necessarily because it was true, but because I wanted people not to buy masks and I wanted people to, you know, that, that there's a sense that it's a manipulated. Um, so, you know, we we've seen the rest of the world has seen these really frightening images from Australia of people getting handcuffed out in the park, uh, with their children, or, um, getting arrested, uh, for, for not wearing a mask or people being hunted down, uh, because they, they were out bootlegging, uh, fast food, you know, are, are those, are those images like representative?
Speaker 0 00:34:25 Is it in a particular region of Australia? Was there a time, you know, for when certain regions or all of Australia that they were not allowed to go outside their house? Cause I mean, that's almost the impression that we're receiving is that you can't go outside your house in Australia, you have to wear a mask, uh, everywhere. Um, you know, also I think when you were talking about differences between the United States and Australia in the United States, we have a strong commitment to federalism. Um, even our president, uh, Joe Biden, really running on a platform of saying, uh, that there was a federal solution and that, um, that Donald Trump was responsible for, uh, the spread of COVID and for the lives loss, because he hadn't properly implemented a, um, an aggressive federal solution. So now we're seeing him saying kind of going back to, uh, what had been Trump's position, which was that, you know, this is something that states have gotta solve, and we can see that, you know, one state has this solution, California and New York have extremely strict lockdown mandates, um, Florida and, uh, South Dakota have different policies, so people can, can move.
Speaker 0 00:36:00 I mean, has there been also a, uh, a difference in how different regions in Australia are, um, implementing measures or is it pretty much all top down, one size fits all?
Speaker 1 00:36:15 Look in the, the last couple of it's only been in the last three months that there has been probably at times in some of the states and how they've responded. Um, I think one of our problems is we don't have enough states in Australia, um, and it sort of becomes too easy for them to get together, uh, and sort of collude and come up with this for the same outcome. But, um, uh, what you're talking about in terms of people being hunted down for, you know, sitting in the park and trying to get some, some during lockdowns absolutely was a, a thing that was happening in Australia, um, uh, all over Australia. Uh, the thing got particularly bad in Melbourne, down in Victoria with, um, uh, you know, we're going door to door, uh, uh, barging, Ghandour sorry. David arrested a pregnant woman for posting on Facebook about, you know, potentially attending a rally.
Speaker 1 00:37:09 Um, and it was some pretty horrific footage around that. Um, it's they had a curfew in, uh, Victoria where they, you know, weren't allowed to go out at night time. Uh, I know from my own experience stuff in Queensland during the lockdowns, um, when you weren't allowed to go outside, there was police helicopters flying. I live in the city in an apartment that's police helicopters flying around a low level over the apartments to see whether people dead to have visitors over to their place or dead to have a party with, you know, 5, 6, 7 people. Um, so it was pretty dystopian stuff. Um, uh, uh, that was occurring in Australia. And it's, it's not as bad as that now. Um, and in new south Wales, we finally got a premier of its, um, our guests standing up and probably leading the country out of this and showing some common sense, uh, probably even more so than the prime minister, uh, a fellow by the name of Don , um, and has held, is held the lawn. He's only just coming, uh, recently took the job sort of semi-recently um, and is showing a lot of common sense in this stuff. Um, we haven't got to the stage yet where we're re employing the thousands of workers that were laid off, you know, um, wanting to have some questions are answered about the vaccines first before I got them, but, um, you know, hopefully we'll get there eventually Lawrence.
Speaker 3 00:38:41 So the question I'm curious about would be in regards to, I guess, workers in the unions on that level. So we have unions here, big places like New York and California, they have them Texas where I'm from they're here, don't have as big of a presence because it's a right to work state, but what I've seen from Australia and what I've seen from other places there have been seemingly this discord among the workers who are hesitant for the vaccines, but then sort of this people who are supposedly to represent them, not actually doing so or saying that no, you must comply. And that seems to have been what I've heard some of the issues in Australia, but since I'm not as familiar with it, I'd be curious about to hear what your take on that is. Um, the big thing here also is shipping truckers. They transport stuff all across America, but these vaccine mandates these, these things from on high have made it where a lot of them just are refusing to transport and that's causing a lot of shortages. So I'm curious if Australia has similar, uh, situation there,
Speaker 1 00:40:05 Hit the nail on the head with that very issue. And I think it's been, um, many, many years that the union movement has been out of touch with its members and what it actually wanted. Um, and it's been, I guess, just a platform for sort of left leftist elitists on their way to parliament, um, uh, or the Congress, I guess. So I guess that's what we're trying to change here, but it's certainly been a, a massive driving factor in our growth. Um, and, um, funnily enough, it's, it's quite serendipitous as it. This is one of the, um, uh, first us cause we've done, uh, done some stuff, Grover Norquist and the Illinois policy Institute, but, um, uh, we're hoping to be in, uh, the us, uh, in the next six months and expand what we're doing here, uh, over there. Uh, and, and exactly going off to, I guess, that, that crowd, that you're talking about it, other people who felt like they weren't represented by their union, um, you know, in the time that they just, they wanted to lose a little bit of representation we've had, you know, was assigning sort of 10,000 members come across in the last three months, just in Australia who oftentimes were quite distressed and they would pay their union Jews, you know, thousands thousand thousand dollars a year for the past 30 years, never needed them.
Speaker 1 00:41:26 The one time that I needed them. Um, uh, the union said, no, they won't help them with this issue. So, um, I think that will be remembered for some time by, uh, average workers. And I think they're probably looking for something a little different. So I guess our model is that we are half the price of the traditional unions, um, and in all of our constitution for our different unions that we, uh, help administer, uh, there's a prohibition on both financial and income and support to any political party. So I guess we're trying to break that link between political parties and the union movement so that it can be a little bit more objective. And then also separately focus far more on the workers rather than, you know, the politics of the day. Cause, um, I don't think that's really ended up helping, uh, the members.
Speaker 0 00:42:23 So, um, I'm understanding that you were saying that the most severe lock downs, the most repressive laws about not being able to walk outside or kind of going door to door to, uh, enforce them that that happened in Victoria. Um, is that correct?
Speaker 1 00:42:46 Yes. Uh, a lot of that was happening all around the country, but the worst was in Victoria certainly yet.
Speaker 0 00:42:54 Um, any thoughts on, on why?
Speaker 1 00:42:58 Uh, he, well, he just, uh, come outside big resounding, um, uh, election victory. He had huge positive polling numbers. Um, you know, never underestimate the media, his ability to drum up fear in a society. And I think Australians were so irrationally fearful. Um, I don't think, I think we've sort of lost any semblance of having, um, some sort of stoicism, uh, and, uh, I guess that we're looking for someone to keep them safe and that's obviously, uh, history has shown people. Who've said they're trying to, you know, keep society safe off and use that as a vehicle for the tyranny. Um, in fact, it got to the point where he recently tried to pass legislation. Thankfully it got pulled up by the minor parties and, um, had to be changed somewhat, but passing new pandemic legislation, which would mean that any of the new rules that he would come up with being the premiere, um, uh, sort of like the governor, he could just basically rule by diktat and wouldn't have to go before parliament.
Speaker 1 00:44:07 Wouldn't have to go before cabinet, um, and wouldn't need anyone else's approval. So basically anything that he deems necessary to, um, you know, control the spread of the virus is very broad. Uh, how is then we had, you know, hundreds of barristers and, um, you know, lawyers writing, um, uh, letters, co-signing letters saying that this would be a very, uh, or some, one of the worst deviations from our Westminster system that I've ever come across. So, um, who knows, you know, the, the left a very good, uh, times, uh, trying to consolidate power. So I guess it, I guess it just comes down to that. I don't, I don't, uh, for one second, think that, um, he genuinely had a concern about the safety. I think it was more just about seeing how far he could go.
Speaker 0 00:45:03 Um, what is the state of public opinion? Um, w what I'm hearing you say is that people work extremely fearful. Um, and I think that's true everywhere, you know, in the world, uh, has that changed over time? Have, um, have some of the more repressive measures and these images of, you know, pregnant women being arrested, people being separated from the children's that a factor in, um, in changing public opinion.
Speaker 1 00:45:39 Um, look, I'd like to, I'd like to say that that was a factor I'd like to say, say that people are outraged by some of that stuff, but I don't think it was the case. Um, uh, some of the mandates, I think, started to change public opinion. Like a lot of people had got the vaccine, but again, I'm comfortable with their colleagues being forced to get it, to keep their jobs, and they sort of drew a line there. And so, um, you know, that's probably a, um, a bridge too far. Um, and I guess then there were a lot of people that begrudgingly got, you know, the two shots to do their bit for society. And then now the same three shots. Um, and a lot of the, uh, apart from, at the moment, which, you know, we have the sort of segregation issue or vaccinated people can do some things and unvaccinated people can't do some things.
Speaker 1 00:46:31 Um, uh, apart from that, which again, I don't think people really have too much trouble with, um, uh, but apart from that, they, they think they've got the job, but by and large, the unvaccinated are being treated similarly to the vaccinated. So why did I even get it in the first place? And I think, um, there was some recent, um, you know, just small, well, reasonably large polls done on some of the bigger, you know, Fox outlets, et cetera, here, where they were, um, big proponents of mandates and everything, you know, the lockdowns and everything else. Um, uh, and then some of those, uh, I think it was something like 60, 64 or 5% of people didn't believe in the mandates. And then I think it was only about three days later from some of that polling that came out, um, the prime minister changed his chain and said, I will, you know, that this, the mandates are a state problem, not a federal problem.
Speaker 1 00:47:24 And the states should get rid of their mandates and, um, started to pick up that, that far. Um, you know, there's been a lot of talk now about Australia. Shouldn't be good because of our incredibly high vaccination rate. We should never go back to lockdowns. So I think, um, yeah, it, it, it's, it's sort of a combination of all of the above, I think, which has sort of started to get to the point where people are just tiring of the pandemic more than, I guess anyone's being roused by the idea of freedom or, um, the, you know, being horrified by the overreach of these sort of faceless bureaucrats and the control that they've had. Other people,
Speaker 0 00:48:04 What is the vaccination rate in Australia?
Speaker 1 00:48:08 Um, I think it's something like, uh, 87% have had two doses and over 90% have had a single dose.
Speaker 0 00:48:21 Um, you know, we also saw these camps or these hotels or whatever, explain to us are those, um, widespread and how are they being used?
Speaker 1 00:48:36 Oh yeah, yeah. Yes. Uh, well, hotel quarantine has been in since the start. So anyone who, uh, needs to come into the country, um, they need a quarantine. Uh, they basically get reasonably scary. You come off a, a, um, an in fact I was talking to a friend of mine. He just come over from the U S um, where things seemed according to him, seemed to be settling down. Um, uh, and he gets off the plane in Australia, greeted by a team of people in hazmat suits, um, ushered away immediately off the plane, basically into a bus, which takes you off to quarantine. So, um, into a quarantine hotel or a quarantine camp, uh, and there you spend your 14 days, um, waiting it out, which is, which is also quite expensive. They now bill you for that. So it's, you know, two or $3,000 for your 14 days in quarantine, um, separately also Australia, you have to seek permission to leave the leave the country. So I don't even know what that's about. It's hardly a health issue. Um, so yeah, there's just been some pretty heavy handed measures brought into Australia, which, um, it's certainly spoke to me, but I dunno, hopefully hopefully the rest of the, uh, the rest of the country starts to push back on this sort of stuff.
Speaker 0 00:49:59 Uh, you know, you'd mentioned Fox, of course, the Murdochs Rupert Murdoch is perhaps most famous Australian in the world have, uh, you know, have, has he been public one way or the other, um, with his views or,
Speaker 1 00:50:23 Um, I don't know about Rupert and I guess I can only speak to my, in Australia with NewsCorp. Um, we actually, uh, uh, lease some space off them at the bottom of one of their buildings they have in Queensland with all the journalists and the editorial team upstairs. And we used to get on quite swimmingly. We give them stories all the time because, um, previously there were quite a number of horrific things happening inside with it. You know, you've got the public hospital system and the public schooling system, uh, where, uh, sunlight is often the best disinfectant and the media can play a really positive role in, you know, uh, outing some of the horrific things that are systemic and have been going on for years where the traditional union movement are. Um, you know, not as keen to reveal that sort of thing, I guess, because, well, who knows, but a bit probably because they don't want to embarrass their friends in parliament who were, you know, running the state at the time.
Speaker 1 00:51:20 So we were having to pass on those messages, those stories to them, we'd get quite a good run probably in the paper every, every week sort of thing with one of our unions, um, uh, talking about various things. And then all of a sudden when this issue came up, we're talking about, you know, thousands of nurses being hesitant, thousands of nurses being sacked, what's that going to do to the health system? That's going to mean they're already stretched understaffed overworked. Is that going to mean that, you know, they're gonna have to do sort of more and more of these back-to-back double shifts, um, like, you know, you work 16 hours, how's that gonna work? Uh, and, uh, all of a sudden we sort of got dropped, um, with the badge of being seen as anti-vaxxers, even though we weren't anti-vaccine at all. In fact, we were, um, you know, trying to get the vaccine into people's arms earlier, um, at the start of the pandemic.
Speaker 1 00:52:10 And then, you know, also being able to, I guess, being able to straddle both sides of the fence, which is, I guess, another interesting way that we've attacked, um, uh, unionism, whereas the unions are very much about the collective whereabouts the collective, but also the individual. So, you know, we, someone pays us Jews, we will give them a service and have a fight for them. Um, even if they're competing, competing views, so plenty. Right. So, yeah, they, they certainly don't really, um, speak to us anymore. So I guess at the editorial level, um, in all the various state, um, media outlets and the different papers, um, they are very keen on, um, having incredibly high vaccination rates full stop. Don't want to talk about any of the hesitancy and why people are hesitant and then, you know, weren't, um, weren't happy to criticize mandates. Weren't happy to criticize the lockdowns. Um, it's only recently that they've sort of started to criticize the lockdown. So, so I don't know about Rupert, but certainly his papers have been, um, very strong proponents and even the editors were writing, um, you know, columns about how, um, anyone who was dead to be hesitant or ask questions was, you know, an anti-vaxxer therefore inherently stupid.
Speaker 0 00:53:29 What has been the situation with the, with the schools, both in terms of, um, you know, younger children, elementary school, high school, and also the colleges. I think that's been a big point of contention here in the United States, uh, and also a lot of resentment against the unions, the teachers unions, um, for having, uh, pushed what many feel was, you know, maybe in their best interest or whether, because, uh, they, they were afraid of, uh, contracting COVID or just because they didn't want to work and happy to still get paid. Um, but then also seeing what's happening in the universities, um, with mandates, for vaccines, for, um, for young people, uh, did you guys go to remote learning? Is that, was that a regional thing? Is it still happening?
Speaker 1 00:54:31 Um, it, it absolutely was a thing. Um, uh, I don't know whether it was in the best interest of teachers. Um, teachers were basically, uh, told during the holiday break to then, um, basically rewrite the entire curriculum for it to be able to be delivered online. Um, um, you know, particularly when we have public schools here where we have a national curriculum, it's all standardized. I thought, you know, perhaps someone could have done that and it could have then been rolled out, but everyone had to do that individually. So that was a huge increase in workload, I guess, for the teachers. I'm not sure they were too pleased about that, but they did that did their bit. Um, uh, and we had, uh, to give an example, particularly in the lowest socioeconomic areas. Like we don't have enough, even in Queensland, there are some areas in Queensland, um, you know, remote areas, et cetera, that only have 30% of households have access to internet.
Speaker 1 00:55:28 So if you're a, you know, a student learning from remotely from a house isn't connected to the internet, it becomes a very difficult proposition. Doesn't it? So, um, and, uh, you know, they say truancy rates were through the roof. You know, if you're sitting at home, do you really, and mum and dad's at work, do you really want to jump on your laptop and join that class? Uh, or would you rather play the X-Box? And I think a lot of people had spent, you know, at least 12 to 18 months during the pandemic falling backwards, going behind. Um, and, uh, now that school has sort of just returned sort of halfway through this year. Um, it becomes almost like you've had to teach constant classes in the same year level where you've got, you know, someone who's been quite diligent and kept all the way up and they're ready for the year 11 standard of work.
Speaker 1 00:56:20 And then you got other people who are still sort of, you know, um, at the beginning of grade 10 in terms of the, the work that they'd been able to produce and get through it. So, and even just the social impacts of, you know, not being able to go to a high school form or a prom and not being able to hang out with friends at school, it's been incredibly isolating and there've been some, um, pretty distressing, um, statistics released to that, you know, childhood health and suicide rates and all sorts of stuff amongst young, you know, young teenagers. Yes, Sorry you there, I can hear you.
Speaker 0 00:57:09 There's a connection issue that's on my end or your end. Um, but, uh, but I'm going to try to move towards a, um, a better internet connection, um, speaking. Okay, great. Uh, speaking of the internet, um, you know, one of the issues here in the United States has been a lot of censorship on social media platforms. Um, the, the biggest critics of the, uh, of these more aggressive interventions, um, have been de de platformed, um, lost their ability to interact on Twitter and other platforms. Uh, is that something that is also taking place in Australia?
Speaker 1 00:58:03 Yes, but it's actually even gone further and it's worse now. Um, there was legislation passed recently where, um, you know, I guess IZO our sort of secret intelligence, um, uh, outfit actually has the ability now to, uh, tap into someone's Twitter account, Facebook account, and either delete posts that they've made or to, um, make whatever posts they want to make. So, um, pretty scary, not even de platforming, but sort of being able to assume the identity of somebody else. And, um, you know, whether they were conspiracies or not, there was some, you know, videos of the prime minister talking live at some press conference. I think it was about six, six to nine months ago when this first came out and there was, you know, vanishing comments, um, as, you know, there were negative comments and they're all vanishing and, you know, people, weren't sort of sure why or how that was happening because you can't really delete that and watch videos. So don't know, but yeah, it's, it's, it's certainly troubling times, um, that were living in Australia. I don't think we've ever been more observed or watched by the government, um, than we are now. And, uh, uh, even that aside, of course, you know, you've got them big tech are trying do their, their bit separately, um, uh, with de platforming people and having all these really stringent policies and guidelines that people often fall foul of without even really knowing why they fall and fail of it.
Speaker 0 00:59:40 I want to also, um, invite those who have joined us, uh, to ask questions or, uh, make a comment. Um, Jack, are you feeling more optimistic? Do you feel like you guys have turned the corner? Um, or, I mean, you know, cause there's two ways a huge upheaval, like this could go one is that maybe people who were complacent about their rights or, you know, had particular political premises, uh, that they kind of hit bottom, so to speak and, um, have an opportunity to reevaluate their, their views, their philosophy of values. Um, another way is that, you know, uh, government gets used to having all these powers and, um, that they, uh, they're gonna, now you've set sort of a, um, a standard and, uh, they're going to be using them, um, for the next crisis.
Speaker 1 01:00:47 Well, yes, I am optimistic. I don't think we will get all of our freedoms back. I don't think we ever do. I mean, I'm, I think nine 11 was probably the most recent pertinent example had incredible security measures brought in off the back of that, um, in the face of terrorism and a lot of that stuff hasn't been, hasn't been wound back. So, um, whether their health mentors get wound back in their entirety, I don't think so. There's a lot of talk about, you know, the new normal, this is the new normal China, you know, it's quite, um, yeah, it's scary how far that they try and go with this sort of propaganda stuff. It's, um, again, quite dystopian, but, but no, I'm, I'm, I'm very positive about where this is all heading. Um, and it's, and it wasn't because of, I guess, any activism or people, um, suddenly caring about their rights and freedoms and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 01:01:42 It was just the spread of Omicron. And, uh, at the same today, they've just changed all the definitions and basically dropped contact tracing altogether because I'm a crime spread too quickly for the government to be able to keep up with. And I think now own Macron will even outstrip the government's ability to put boosters into people's arms. And then we've been get to the point where, well, if everyone's had Omicron in the next 2, 3, 4 months, um, before people are even ready to get their booster, well, then everyone's got natural immunity and is that not the end of the pandemic let's move on. So I think it's, uh, it's only been this week that I've sorta been, felt a little bit positive about that. And again, when we rate when, and if we reach herd immunity, you know, it might be then that they start to walk back the requirements for vaccination, and then we, um, can get some of these people, you know, nurses, teachers, et cetera, reemployed.
Speaker 1 01:02:41 But, um, but again, that might be too far. I think they'd probably keep some sort of explanation requirement, but, um, you know, perhaps all the other more restrictive measures get dropped, um, uh, pushed back a little bit. Should I some common sense of saying, you know, look where you do. We really want to go into a lockdown over not many, um, uh, not that many cases comparative to rest of the world. Once we go into lockdown, it may be sometime before we come out a lockdown, we don't want it. And then maybe he just got sort of pilloried by the media, um, and forced into doing it. And then I think there was one or two other decisions he tried to make where he got, uh, again, hung out by the media. And that was when he sort of abdicated, um, and sort of handed over to the, to the state premiers, uh, to run the show.
Speaker 1 01:03:34 And the state premiers are mostly, um, whether the, the labor party left-wing parties and they're sort of, you know, very much in favor of all these mandates and love the government creep and control and all the rest of it. So then I guess they were sort of, um singing from the same hymn sheet, uh, with the media. And it was a yeah. Something to behold, the amount of people that you can, you know, incite, fearing. And once they're scared being able to offer, you know, safety through, um, you know, more controlling measures, you know, there was a, there was a lot of people that subscribe to that, so, yeah. Frightening. And, um, yeah, certainly the media was, um, a big problem, but I guess it's also led to, I guess I think a positive thing, uh, in the rise of, you know, some independent media in Australia.
Speaker 1 01:04:25 Um, I know we're oftentimes, probably about five, 10 years behind the us in Australia in terms of politics. Um, uh, and you know, I guess where we sort of, the direction that we're heading, um, there's a bit of a lag factor and I know independent media is probably been around a little bit longer in America, but we've only just started to see some of it rise and truly gained some traction, um, off the back of it. So, um, I guess that is a positive, but a positive, but also I guess then leads to bore, uh, you know, a more fractured and divisive society is people start to just listen to more and more of what they really believe in and operate in their own echo chambers. And does that make a more polarized society of well, but I do think having alternative voices to the mainstream media is a positive thing,
Speaker 4 01:05:14 Quick follow up. So, you know, we're right now and it seemed like the media really capitalized on this right now. We've got to do something right now and there's no other options and don't listen to anyone else. But in reality, you know, we live in time and it won't always be right now. And it's eventually going to be a year or a couple years from now, and people will have time to reflect. And I imagine there'll be more and more of these clips of these government officials and media people going, you know, in there to their eclectic Steria. Do you think that in Australia, uh, that the Australian people will, you know, I don't know when a couple, three years look back on this thing and you know, will, will they, what do you think they'll they'll the impression will be, was it my God, our media was broken and we went insane or would it be, you know, just that these folks who created this narrative are going to be able to continue to control it and say, no, everything we did was necessary and good.
Speaker 1 01:06:19 Um, that's a really good question. And I don't know, I've thought about this for some time, because I think one of the positives and the negatives of the quick spread of Omicron, and I think it's not a controversial thing to say that it is a, quite a much milder version of the other strains. I think, you know, there's even statistics coming out of South Africa. And I think even our government bureaucrats today said, it's something like 80%, less severe than Delta, which Delta was then have many times percent less severe than the other ones. Um, but I think they will be probably able to, um, sadly say the reason why there were so few hospitalizations. I mean, I don't know. I think we've only got a handful of people in ICU at the moment we've got thousands and thousands of cases. Um, the reason why there's so few people in ICU is because everyone's been vaccinated. I don't think there'll be, you know, then any analysis done on, you know, what portion of the un-vaccinated were in ICU, as opposed to the portion of vaccinated in ICU and all that sort of stuff that doesn't really, I guess won't matter. So I guess I think they will try and claim all the credit, um, for steering it through the pandemic. And I think a majority of the population will sort of happily buy into that.
Speaker 0 01:07:41 Alan looks like you've changed your profile. My right.
Speaker 5 01:07:48 Oh yeah, that was, I was, um, uh, Christmas day, it was kind of a joke I was in, uh, solving and that's a California official California ballot collection box, which I had never seen one before I took as a picture and I forgot to change it back, but, uh, I thought it was funny I in another room and just put that up there as a, as a kind of joke, but, um, yeah, it'll probably go back to my other, uh, piece of sculpture, um, you know, but to comment on the room first, I got to say with all the lockdowns, as someone who has worked at home for years and prefers that, and is a self-avowed hermit, I saw this dull, the lockdowns, uh, government approval of what had always been my lifestyle. So I, I had no problem with it though, for my son who was in, it was part of seventh and eighth grade.
Speaker 5 01:09:07 It really was difficult on him and developmentally what kids, kids, kids need to be around each other. But my view of it was, I didn't want to take any chance. Um, especially before the VA any vaccine had been developed, uh, he was, my feeling was regardless of what the, the government said, and I'm hearing California, whatever the government said, he was going to stay at home. He wasn't, I wasn't going to take a chance, but I think, you know, you were talking about three years or two years from now, when they look back, I, I don't need, from my perspective, I don't need two years. I think what I hope we get out of this is the idea that government cannot be.
Speaker 5 01:10:08 And, uh, no government can't always find a solution to all the problems we face. And clearly, as you were talking about Jack with Omicron and how it's overrunning the, the Australian government's ability to get vaccines into people and to continue their contact racing, that there were things in the world that the government can't solve. And that at least for right now, people can't solve either. You know, if we lived in a future star Trek world, maybe we could, but for right now, we can't. And to always be saying, well, the government needs to solve this. Well, I think we're finding that, uh, it's we do as humans and the institutions we've developed as humans, including government are not equal to the task. So that, that's, that's the only thing I can say that I, that I'll say about that. And it's unfortunate, but it's part of life, I think,
Speaker 1 01:11:23 Oh, I, I, a hundred percent agree with you. Um, and I think, um, with the spread of Omicron, I think it was three days. It was three days before we detected it Macron before it overwhelmed contact traces. So, um, it was only the slightest amount of pressure that was put on the government and a, uh, couldn't handle it. So, um, and, and then obviously throughout the pandemic, that'd been, um, you know, lots of cases where they've got a totally wrong and, and, and I, I agree with you. And I think that's one of the great travesties in Australia is we've lost. Um, I think for the most part, uh, any sort of sense of individual responsibility, um, and people are only too happy to shift the responsibility to government and make it someone else's problem. And they would be, you know, government will fix this and government will fix that. And I absolutely agree with you that people should be, no, it should be left up to the individual to make their own choices based on, you know, whatever research and information they have in front of them.
Speaker 5 01:12:21 Yeah. And for myself, you know, uh, w you know, there's been the whole controversy about wearing masks and social distancing and all that. And, you know, I won't get into that debate. I'll just, I just know for myself, I haven't had a cold or the flu or anything in two years, and that's not an accident. So, so that's, for me, I see that as kind of a benefit, but the, but the other issue is that I think when we compare say the splint Spanish flu epidemic in the twenties to what we're going through now, first of all, they got through it without any of the tools that we have now in terms of vaccines or contact tracing or things like that. So we will come out the other end one way or the other. Uh, but I think people focus, people focus on a lot of different things.
Speaker 5 01:13:34 And to me, the, the, the only determining factor for me is the number of new cases that they're getting every day. And in, in my mind, when I see that, you know, there's maybe three new cases in Los Angeles county a day because they do that, the county does have those report, those numbers every day, though, they are kind of obscuring them a little, and I won't get into the, the reasons why they're doing that, which I think are political, but you can still get enough information to, you can see what the infection rates are. And when, and right now it's something like 1200 a day or whatever it is when those rates go down to something like three a day, well, then we can assume we're safer. But right now, to me, the only determining factor are those infection rates and, and anything else aside, as you're saying, individual responsibility is what matters.
Speaker 5 01:14:44 Because as long as I see those numbers, I am not going to change. I'm going to monitor my own behavior. And I can tell you here in California, which, you know, if we frame this as a conservative versus liberal kind of view for a moment, um, I'm in the bastion of progressive ideology. And I've been to a few, uh, events related to the entertainment industry, which you would think people would be overly cautious, and they did require that a person be vaccinated yet. No one was wearing a mask. There was no social distancing involved. And everyone was, I think the attitude was, I got my mask, my vaccine, therefore I can do whatever I want. And again, I refer this to the infection rates. The infection rates are still at high enough levels that I, we still need to be cautious. And Alma Cron is just another example of that
Speaker 6 01:16:14 Tuesday. So I will see you all next year, a cautionary tale, your optimism. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 01:16:43 Yeah. Well, thanks. Thanks for having us on. And I, um, we might see you in the U S in six to 12 months.
Speaker 6 01:16:50 Yeah.
Speaker 5 01:16:58 Thanks.
