Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 It looks like we're ready to go,
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Right? Yes, absolutely. Uh, I'm thrilled to be hosting, uh, the Atlas Society Scholar, Steven Hicks, and founder David Kelly. And then we've also got, uh, attorney and movie producer Harmon Caslow, uh, who along with our own trustee, John Aglio Loro co-produced the Atla Shrugged movies. Uh, we also have Scott Des Sapio. He's gonna be, uh, answering some questions as well. He may have some as well. And, uh, questions once we do this opening. And we're gonna try to, you know, pretty, uh, loose allowing, uh, David and Harmon to recount some of what, uh, you know, they went through on the movie. And, uh, during the course of things, uh, you know, we wanna update the, uh, upcoming series. But, uh, Harmon, maybe you could start by giving us a little of your origin story and how you originally came to be involved in the movie project.
Speaker 0 00:00:57 Well, sounds good. Uh, before I get started, I do want everyone to know, uh, Scott has played a big role, uh, in, in the movies as one of our associate producers. And then in the, uh, upcoming potential mini-series with Daley Wire will be one of the executive producers. So, uh, we, we lean on him a lot, and I encourage Scott to, uh, chime in, um, a a as far as, you know, responding to, to your question, uh, man, it was, uh, more than 10 years ago, time has flown by, uh, John and I introduced my mutual friends. And, you know, John's interest at that point in time was to not let his rights and Atlas Shrug lapse. And so we sought out somebody to help him, you know, produce at least one movie. And it led to the production of a trilogy of movies. Uh, based on the novel Atlas Shrug included in John's, uh, rights was to do a remake.
Speaker 0 00:02:13 So once he was done with the, the trilogy, over the past six, seven years, a number of parties have approached John about doing a remake. And, uh, I, I think that we found a actually a, a a, a good partner in Daily Wire, uh, to step in and take on that challenge. They're, they're going to be, you know, responsible for the production of the movie, the financing of the movie. We actually have a relatively, uh, limited role in it. And as we get into it, I'll, I'll go through and more details, uh, more detail about what that role will be. Um, also, just so that I'm sure a lot of people here know about Scott, but I'm gonna put Scott on the spot and have him give just a quick overview on sort of how he's come to be such an important and essential part, not only of, of what we were doing with the movies, but also what we did through Atlas distribution in exploiting the movies. So, Scott,
Speaker 1 00:03:32 The right bottom button is the microphone where you can unmute. There we go.
Speaker 2 00:03:39 Hello.
Speaker 1 00:03:41 Hello.
Speaker 2 00:03:42 Hello. Hello.
Speaker 0 00:03:44 We hear you. Your
Speaker 2 00:03:45 Turn. All right. Hold on just a minute. I'm, uh, I'm in my truck, actually. All right. I'm sorry. I think I'm good. Can you hear me? Yeah, we can, yeah. And everyone should know that's Scott is a Texas boy. Yes. Yes, I am.
Speaker 0 00:04:03 So it's a pickup truck.
Speaker 2 00:04:05 <laugh>. So, <laugh>, so what was the question? I'm sorry. I was trying to get myself situated.
Speaker 0 00:04:11 Oh, no, I was just saying, Scott, it'd be great for people to just have a quick, um, overview of, of how you came to be so important and intimately involved in what we've done at Atlas in connection with the movies and the marketing and, and those sorts of things. So that, uh, people understand why you have been, uh, appointed to be one of the executive producers of this upcoming daily wire production.
Speaker 2 00:04:43 Oh, boy. Um, so, uh, it all started way back when. I'll try and keep a long story really, really, really short. Um, I was, uh, uh, I was living in Florida at the time, and, uh, I was a huge fan of Atlas. Of course, I had read it in my twenties. And I had went to build, um, a business with Atlas Shrugged under one arm, and Fountain Head under the other arm. My, my philosophical foundation was set, uh, in my early twenties. Uh, and with the help of Es guidance and those two books, uh, I, I went on to, to build a multimillion dollar software company that I later on sold. And after I sold that company, um, a couple of years, I was trying to figure out what I'm gonna do next. And I found out that Atlas was being made into a movie, and I said to myself, these guys need to know that I exist.
Speaker 2 00:05:36 Because I thought who I was, because I had just gone through life with Atlas Shrugged, as I said, under one arm and Fountain, head under the other. And, uh, and I set out on a mission to get them to know that I existed. I wrote emails, I did everything that I could to get their attention. And, uh, and, uh, one day, uh, they put up a post on Facebook saying, Hey, we need somebody that knows how to build apps, mobile apps. And, um, I actually had just finished building a couple for the iPhone, and I got a couple of design awards from Apple. So I thought, I got this, this is in the bag, here's my opportunity. And, uh, I answered the post and I said, guys, it's me. I'm here. Award-winning software developer. I'm your guy. And nobody, nobody responded. The Atlas team did not respond, but that did not set well with me.
Speaker 2 00:06:27 So I continued to annoy them for weeks until finally I decided I'm just gonna build them an app. And I built them an app, and I said it to them. I said, here's your app. And the phone rang the next day, and it was the screenwriter, uh, Brian Oto. And he said to me, I guess we work together now. And I said, you're damn right. We work together now. And, uh, and it was a marriage made in heaven, and we've been together now for 13 years. And, uh, my love for I, and, and, uh, Atlas and all of V's work, um, has really guided me, uh, throughout my life. And, um, it was an honor then, and it's an honor now to, uh, be a part of the project. Uh, the movies were, the making of the movies, um, was really intense. And, um, uh, we don't expect the making of the, the television series, series, excuse me, to be any less intense.
Speaker 2 00:07:23 Um, but what we've done this time around, and I'm excited for Harmon to share it with you. What we've done this time around is a little bit different, uh, in that we have made it our number one priority. And I'm sorry if I'm jumping ahead here, harm, and I just wanna say this, um, we have made it our number one priority. When we started this conversation with the Daily Wire. We made it our number one priority to protect the integrity of the book at all costs, to the point that there are things built into the contract, there are safety nets in the contract to ensure a, uh, solid adaptation that stays true to E's vision. And Harmon's gonna explain more about that. Uh, but back to the original question, that's essentially, uh, how I got my foot in the door, kicked it through the door, um, and, uh, have not left. I have not left. And, uh, and I, I have no plans on leaving. So, uh, in any event, uh, that's that. So back to you.
Speaker 4 00:08:24 All right, uh, can I just jump in? Uh, we've got a lot to talk about here, but I just wanna give a little more of the background. Um, John Loro, uh, you know, signed an option, a 30 year option in 19 early 1990, or shortly thereafter. And it was expiring toward 2010. And after many efforts, uh, that some of which I was involved in with, uh, to try to get a major production house, major studio to take on some, some, you know, promising ideas, they all came to nothing. So in the spring of that year, 2010, John went out to Hollywood, met Harmon, hired, uh, Brian Oto, developed a script, hired a cast, and found the first locations for filming. And, you know, met the deadline to have the, the, um, the, the first movie in principle production, which means filming within, I would say, I think my memory was about three months.
Speaker 4 00:09:31 I mean, this is a story that is in my mind, the equal of Dagney Taggart building the, uh, r the Rio Norte, the John ga line in nine months. Um, it's amazing. And Harmon, you know, I, Harmon and Scott, I think were both involved in that. And, uh, it's so exciting to, um, that he made the deadline. And now, you know, granted, there were some problems with the movies. Scott and I were partners in crime in, um, on with some of the, trying to get some of the script changed. That was, uh, like was fingernails on the blackboard. But, um, David, um, anyway, you know, I'm, I'm really eager to hear, uh, more about the, uh, well, both more about the, um, uh, the day of the Wire project, which is, you know, our main topic today. But I also, um, if you wanna fill us in a little bit, what you've been doing since 2014, when the end of the trilogy occurred, you know, it's nine years later, but you've been maintaining and kept the org organization going, and you're doing some very inventive stuff. So I'll just put that question on the table, and then let's go to the, uh, daily Wire project.
Speaker 0 00:10:56 Well, sounds good. So, you know, Scott and his team built some fabulous software and applications for us to do really a lot of things. Uh, what was important to us was, uh, taking advantage of the data that's available, so we would make, uh, good decisions with respect to booking the movie into theaters, so on and so forth. And we decided when we were done with the project to enterprise those applications, license them out. And since then, we have, uh, and, and really more recently, we've released more than 40 movies theatrically. We have a really high quality team of people to put movies in theaters. Uh, we, we do it for other distributors, we do it for other producers. And we built a nice business there. And we built some really, um, you know, uh, important complimentary tools that allow us to, you know, do online movie testing, do provide online, you know, movie viewing, uh, websites, all sorts of things. And have built really a, a very solid company providing distribution services, uh, which is actually one, one of the things that may come into play, should, uh, daily Wire proceed, produce the movie. We would then have an opportunity to, um, do the theatrical release of that movie, because the Daily Wires is, uh, right now solely an online streaming platform.
Speaker 0 00:12:44 So we've been nice and busy working on other stuff, and as people have, uh, approached John, uh, and us about doing something, I think, you know, after all of these years, we found, uh, we, we were contacted by the Daily Wire, uh, Jeremy Boring president there. His, uh, very passionate fan of the book. So, so much so that he named his daughter, uh, Dagney and, uh, and, and, and Ben Shapiro, the, uh, other founder of The Daily Wire, also a, an incredible fan of the book, I believe, you know, one of those persons who dust it off every several years to, uh, to give it another read. So we have two people, uh, you know, spearheading at Daley Wire, who really have a lot of familiarity, uh, have a lot of respect for the book. And, uh, as Scott pointed out, you know, one of the things that, that we actually put into the contract was, uh, that they would do an accurate and faithful adaptation of the book. And, and we'll get into some detail, uh, through this discussion on, on perhaps some of the things that, you know, we are, are, or, or that are going to be done that, uh, hopefully will keep us on that path and, and really make those fans of the book and, and people who, uh, the book has a very important role in their life, pleased with the, uh, outcome.
Speaker 1 00:14:26 Great. Can you, uh, just talk a little bit about, you know, obviously you were under these crazy time constraints, but some of the, you know, even maybe things you learned from, from these tough interactions in making the first one and, you know, what you plan to maybe try differently this time around to the extent you, you know, have an impact?
Speaker 0 00:14:49 Yeah, that, that, that's a, a good question, Scott. Um, you, you know, essentially what, uh, what, what, what error that we, that, that, that I made in, in the position that I was in, was not making certain that people with critical responsibilities in the production, uh, loved the book. That, that that would entail that they read it, it had a meaningful impact on the book. And that, you know, their attitude towards being involved in the production is, you know, very similar to what you heard Scott and Sia say, which is, you know, wow, this is something that I really need to be involved in. So, um, one, one of the things that we have, uh, put into the Daily Wire contract is that certain critical elements, uh, we will have approval rights over, and we intend on, you know, bringing in, you know, David Kelly and, and people that, that we have a lot of respect for, who have a lot of knowledge, respect, appreciation, and understanding of the material to have a seat at the table.
Speaker 0 00:16:05 Because if we can build a team of people who understand the book are committed to an accurate and faithful adaptation, that I don't think will run into the issues that we encountered, uh, trying to quickly put together a production and execute Atlas Shrug accurately, because, uh, you know, that that just didn't, that that wasn't a formula that that works. So the good news is Daily Wire is, is, you know, committed to doing that and, uh, having us involved, having a seat at the table. You know, one of the big things that I'd even attempted to do, but was not successful, uh, with part three was to put the critical elements of the movie. So we're talking about the director, the, uh, set designer, costume cinematographer, you know, people who really put their fingerprints on the movie, um, to, to just sit down for a week and let's, let's go through the book.
Speaker 0 00:17:17 Let's hear about the philosophical messages. Let's make certain that we all understand these characters, that we understand the, the, the heroes, the villains, you know, who are the strikers, what's going on here, you know, just to have a much deeper conversation and simply going out and shooting a script. So one of the things that, uh, we, we now have in the agreement is a requirement that the top key elements will participate in a masterclass, uh, prior to beginning the production of the movie. And, uh, actually in, in the agreement, we refer to David as, as big one of the critical elements of that, and our, and our hope there is that we get in front of, you know, any of the questions, any of the temptation to reimagine, uh, clear up any misunderstandings that that may exist. And even though, you know, we require that, uh, the elements have read the book, we also wanna make certain that they understand its message.
Speaker 4 00:18:26 So, Harmon, um, jumping in again, uh, I understand that the contract, or I, I did understand that the contract gave you and John, uh, approval rights over the screenwriter. Um, but it sounds like you've got more in that contract, um, in terms of, you know, input and control.
Speaker 0 00:18:47 Well, yeah, it's, it's pretty limited. So we did, so, so you are right. We do get to approve the writer, but also we have, uh, a seat at the table, uh, regarding the treatment and each script as well as the selection of the director and other key creative decisions. What, what's important though, to keep in mind is that ultimately Daily Wire will be making those final decisions, but, uh, you know, at least we'll have a seat at the table so that, uh, we can do everything within our control and power to, uh, present to the audience a accurate and faithful adaptation of the book.
Speaker 4 00:19:34 Great. That's music in my ears.
Speaker 0 00:19:38 <laugh>. Well, I think it's music to a lot of people's ears. You know, one of the things, Scott, that you brought up was the timing. Uh, actually, David, I wish it was three months, John and I did not have a screenwriter April 15th with a start date of June 10th. And, you know, ATLA Shrug is one of those novels that, uh, a lot of studios over time had had sort of kicked the tires on, but ultimately for whatever reason, you know, elected to pass. And I think, David, you know, you've seen a number of screenplays, you know, written by Academy Award-winning, uh, screenwriters and things of those sort that still don't even, you know, I, I, I don't think today even match up to some of the original writings that, uh, we're commissioned, including the Sterling Sien script that was, uh, overseen by, uh, I herself. Um, and so, you know, what we've, what we've done in this process to help daily wires, we've put together, together a lot of these materials.
Speaker 0 00:20:49 Uh, there's a great book that, uh, David you put together called Atla Shrug, the, the novel, the films, the philosophy, uh, which is really a primer for anyone who has an interest in trying to figure out how would you go about turning this into a movie. But I think the good news is that, that that Daily Wire, at least today, is very committed to doing this, uh, as a faithful adaptation. I think that they recognize, like we do, you know, the important legacy value that's associated with the property and the importance of getting it right.
Speaker 4 00:21:36 Yeah, just a, a, a slight memory for, uh, Carmen, from what you were saying, I remember back in, uh, I think it was the s John had, uh, was working maybe with Lionsgate, I forget. Anyway, um, brand Walz was writing a script and the first version read Well, but then I realized there's no strike here,
Speaker 4 00:22:03 You know, Atlas without the strike. It's like, gone with the Wind without the Civil War. What, what is he thinking? And you know, we, I think we did a lot better on the, on the, um, movies. Thanks to you, John Scott, my minor contribution. But, um, anyway, yeah, it's, I'm so glad that you're working more intensely and, uh, with the Daily Wire people. So I want to, um, you know, we're getting onto the half hour point. I, I want to, you know, make sure my dear colleague Steven, uh, Hicks can jump in here. And, uh, I know we have Abby, uh, Behringer on the call, and she's been working with you Harmon, I know on getting someone from David Wire, they talk at our July student conference, develop golf seminar. So, I don't know, we have a bunch of questions, but let me, let me let, let, let me just before we get to that, let me just ask, uh, is there anything else that you know, would be informative about the current state of play? Herman, uh, Andrew Scott.
Speaker 0 00:23:14 Well, I'll, I'll chime in real quickly there. So it, it appears that, uh, Daley Wire has identified a writer. So the next step in the process is, uh, our interviewing them. And so in addition to, uh, Scott, uh, John and me, David's also going to have a seat at that table, uh, there. And, and I also think, you know, it's, it behooves us to, you know, just take a moment to take advantage of the, you know, the, the, the knowledge familiarity that, uh, you and this audience has with the material to also, you know, be be able to get your insights into, you know, the things that you might want to see, you know, in a mini-series based on it. You know, we're not in a position anymore to really dictate to Daily Wire what they're gonna do. And because they're financing the movie and the nature of our collaboration, you know, they're going to be leading that charge and making those decisions.
Speaker 0 00:24:29 But we'll also have a seat at the table, and it'd be a nice place for us to bring the observations, comments, suggestions of not only you, David, but, but again, the people in this audience to that table so that we can try with our, as best we can to really have something produced that we can all be proud of, that we can, uh, share with our friends and enjoy watching over and over and over again. Because we know just how difficult and challenging it is for anybody to take on the task of producing, uh, a movie or something based on Alice. Right?
Speaker 4 00:25:12 For sure. Yeah. Um, and I see Scott, I'm muted.
Speaker 5 00:25:17 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:25:18 I, well, I was just going to, uh, uh, you know, offer, uh, Steven if he had a question to, uh, jump in before I, uh, go on to my next, uh, go ahead, Steven.
Speaker 5 00:25:30 Yeah. Uh, just a general question about the specification so far. Is there any, uh, sense for how many episodes there would be, whether it would be open-ended, 1, 2, 3 seasons, that sort of thing? I guess what's on my mind is taking, you know, a thousand pages of novel and trying to get a sense for how much realistically could be included.
Speaker 0 00:25:55 Yeah, that's, that's a good question, Steven. And, and right now they're looking at, at doing three separate, in a sense, seasons and following, in a sense the structure of the book. So part one, part two, part three on that, and looking at doing somewhere between eight to 10 episodes per section. So I, I think at this point, uh, they're really using the book as a roadmap. I think that's what their intentions are. Uh, but, but it will not be, uh, an open-ended, uh, endeavor. I think that their mission is to, uh, go from page one through page, whatever it is, 1200 and something, um, and, um, and deliver that over the course of three seasons.
Speaker 1 00:26:56 That's great. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, some of these shows get so popular, they go past their original story Arch. I haven't even contemplated the idea of, if it's so popular, maybe it'll show them coming back to Safe Civilization
Speaker 0 00:27:11 <laugh>. Yeah, no, I, I, I don't, I think the good news is that, uh, that, you know, they would be straying a bit from the book, and I think right now, the, uh, the focus is let's, let's do what we can to a as faithfully as we can a adapt the book into, uh, a movie. Uh, I don't think, based again, on, on on just the very preliminary conversations, there's a lot of interest in trying to reimagine things, or, or guess I think that they're, they're really happy with what I wrote, and I think they're even happier that they now have an opportunity to try to execute it, uh, correctly and accurately.
Speaker 4 00:28:01 Uh, Harmon one that really ridge the question that we've talked, you and I have talked about, um, and that is, uh, the setting, you know, <inaudible> set in a world of the 1950s, uh, heavy industry trains, steel, um, and, you know, we've both seen some updates into, you know, high tech, modern times, at least the one example I'm thinking of did not work, it just was incoherent. But, um, so are we gonna stay with the, uh, the, the world of Atlas shrug in that sense?
Speaker 0 00:28:43 Well, I don't wanna get too far in front of my skis here. Uh, it's, it's not, that's not a decision, uh, that, that we're going to make. So, uh, I don't, I don't know the answer to that. Um, but, but I can just reiterate, you know, what essentially they've told us and in fact, represented to, to the estate when, when question was, they're, they're, they're just looking at, uh, adapting the book. I don't, I haven't heard in a conversation, uh, any interest in trying to do anything different. I think that they believe that the way that the story was, uh, was structured makes a lot of sense, and attempting to change those elements just create enormous challenges that, uh, would be avoidable by just, uh, keeping it the way it was. But, uh, again, th this is not something that, uh, with his, within the scope of, of our decision, but just, uh, relaying to you what's been told to me.
Speaker 4 00:29:51 Oh, thank you. Um,
Speaker 1 00:29:55 I do wanna encourage people, if you've got questions to raise your hand, uh, we still have some questions. I went back and watched some of the first movie to, uh, prepare for this. It started, you know, September 2nd, 2016. And, uh, you know, I'm, I'm just, uh, so that was just an early strategic decision that you had, you and the, the screenwriter had to make, I guess.
Speaker 0 00:30:22 Yeah, so, so that's, that's a good observation. Um, and it's something we did talk about, right, was do we wanna put a date, you know, on, on the movie? Because, uh, the, the understanding of the timing of the story was, uh, you know, the day after tomorrow, something in the, in the near future, right? And once the movie was finished, you know, we realized that because we used, uh, you know, items that exist in the 21st century, um, that it would in a very short amount of time, the cell phones, for example, things just evolve so quickly that if, if we just said, you know, sometime in the future, in a matter of four or five years, uh, it's already gonna look dated. So I think once we made the decision to not do it in the timeframe, uh, that was set out in the book, I, I, I think that, uh, you know, we, we just, we, we decided all right, at some point in time, 15 years now, it's really gonna look like this is taking place in the, uh, you know, in the early two thousands. So, uh, that, that's why we chose to put a date, but to put a date that was in the future from when the movie was originally presented to the audience.
Speaker 4 00:31:52 Um, I know that, uh, a couple people are now, um, interested in speaking, uh, Scott, you're the, uh, organizer, so I'll let you, but I do wanna get Abby in here, um, to talk a little bit about, um, the Daily Wire option with, uh, uh, okay. Abby, I'm just inviting you to speak
Speaker 1 00:32:13 <laugh>. She's up,
Speaker 4 00:32:14 She's up. I,
Speaker 6 00:32:15 Well, we haven't, I know we've, we've had a couple conversations with Harmon about having somebody from the Daily Wire come speak at Gulch Summit, uh, July 27th through 29th at Seattle Atlas Societies first conference in over seven years. And we're super excited to bring students in, a lot of whom will be, you know, potentially being introduced to Rand and Atlas Shrug, you know, it'll be very early on in their, uh, you know, intellectual endeavors there. So we just, we wanna have the opportunity, hopefully, to bring, um, members of the Daily Wire in to speak a little bit about the mini-series, uh, at our, uh, as a keynote at our address on Friday night. So, um, you know, still exploring those opportunities and, you know, I've, uh, talk to Harmon about it. So, um, I don't have anything concrete to say about who that might be, but we're very hopeful that we can get somebody in to, to talk about it, or if not, at least host a panel on the topic, uh, since it's going to be top of mind and is a very exciting project.
Speaker 0 00:33:08 And, and if I can just, you know, jump in, uh, on that. So the Daily Wires headquarters are in Nashville, uh, and, and really impress that they have their studios, uh, you know, they're, they're a fast growing, you know, company over there with a sizable presence. Um, and, and there is, there is a lot of interest in bringing in, uh, groups who have a lot of passion and interest in, uh, I Rand Atlas Shrug. So I do anticipate that they will be, you know, supporting it. And hopefully there's a way for, uh, the participants to get a little bit of the, the flavor perhaps, of what they're doing over there at Daley Wire. Um, not only in connection with, uh, Atlas Shrug, but, but maybe some of the other endeavors. But I know in our conversations, you know, with them, they know the Atlas Society exists. They know it's a great resource, uh, for them, uh, in connection with the, you know, Atlas Shrug mini-series endeavor. So we will continue to work to do what we can to make their participation happen as well as hopefully be meaningful for those participants.
Speaker 4 00:34:33 And if I could just, uh, jump in here, Abby and I see Jag is with us now, don't be shy about advertising this, uh, event. There's some people on this call who might be interested in coming and attending as, uh, adults or as students.
Speaker 6 00:34:50 Yes, I can certainly, uh, I'll post the link here in the comments. Um, down here, the left, I'll be able to post the link there. But yeah, the event is going to be, as I said, it's our first conference in over seven years. We're bringing in students and adults trying to curate content with David and Steven and Richard and our other scholars. Uh, the three of them are here today to, um, you know, talk about, you know, really introduce students, those who aren't familiar with Rand, to introduce them to Rand to talk about objectivism, but then also to provide an opportunity to just talk about philosophy and the importance of philosophy in one's life, to meet students where they're at, you know, talking about the issues they face day-to-day on their campuses, uh, and just how they combat those, you know, ideologically and intellectually, uh, the kind of leftist storm that they face on their campuses. So that's a priority, uh, of ours. And I know, know, David and, and all of our scholars are working really hard, Steven, to, uh, create this content. And yes, I'll definitely share links, like I said, uh, July 27th through 29th in Nashville, Tennessee. Um, it's open to, we've got tickets for students, tickets for adults. So I will share the link in the chat. And, uh, yeah, anything else you wanna add, David or Steven from your end or Jag
Speaker 1 00:36:02 Great. Well, uh, if not, we'll just, uh, move on. Paul is joining the stage. Paul, I don't know if you've been on Clubhouse before, but you just click your, uh, microphone button at the bottom right to unmute.
Speaker 7 00:36:14 Oh, Dave, this is my first time on Clubhouse, so I'm glad to be here. You're welcome. I have a question about the number of episodes you, you mentioned eight to 10 episodes per season. Will they be shown, uh, do you envision on a weekly basis or a daily basis? It would seem to me that would make all the difference.
Speaker 0 00:36:38 Paul, that's, that's, that's a good question. It's not what I'm, uh, qualified, uh, to answer. Um, you know, what, what, one of the things that, again, during the course of the, the conversations and negotiations, uh, between us and Daily Wire was, um, actually ways that we can make the movies or or series available to people. And so, as, as David, um, allowed me to explain earlier, you know, our company Atlas distribution has a lot of experience on the theatrical side. We probably, if, if you follow what's happening in theaters, you're probably aware that, uh, a company called Angel Studios, uh, using event cinema, um, has been holding events for their chosen TV series. And essentially, I think they're putting a couple of episodes together and marketing them is available for people to come see in a theater. And, um, hopefully, you know, something like that would be available.
Speaker 0 00:37:50 Uh, not, not that we want to take away from the opportunity to scream or watch the movie online, but I think from where we sit, you know, if, if this is done the way we expect it to be done, and, and, and something we're all very proud of, it would be a great way to do some event cinemas, show a couple of episodes, wet people's appetite, give them a real feel for how this has been executed, and then allow them to share that with like-minded people in a, in a really nice setting. But, um, but I don't have any specifics. And again, those, those sorts of things will be Daily Wire, um, you have to be answered by the Daily Wire. They are branching into this series type programming. And in fact, right now, one of, one of the reasons things are probably not happening, um, a as much as certainly we would like them to be on the Atlas side, is they're producing a mini-series based on King Arthur. So we'll just sort of watch and see what happens there and see what decisions, uh, that, that they make. But I'm, I personally, I'm a big fan of, you know, the binge, uh, watching opportunity because, uh, that, that way I can decide when I've had enough and, and can turn it off versus, you know, having to, uh, wait and tune in on a weekly basis.
Speaker 7 00:39:21 So my thought is that if it's on a weekly basis, that gives, um, the viewer more time to mull over what, uh, he or she has experienced in the episode, each episode, and that that would mean that we should pattern the each episode to have the dramatic structure of its own, so that there is a kind of, uh, message and idea that we want to get across that I wants it to get across. But, um, we needed time to think it over, over the interviewing, intervening, uh, weeks of days or weeks. And, um, that structure would be, need to be different a little bit in terms of, um, incorporating the, all the events in Atla shrugged into episodes.
Speaker 0 00:40:09 Yeah, yeah, no, I think, I think you actually raised a really, uh, valid point on, on that front. Um, but anything relating to the programming and those things, you know, that, that ultimately is, is gonna be a, a daily wired decision. You know, I, I just sense that, you know, if this turns out the way that we all hope it does, man, it takes a lot of, uh, you know, courage to say, well, we're not gonna show you this whole thing that we've created. So, uh, but, but I think you do raise a good point, and it's actually one of the things that John John Agley Loro talks about a lot, which is, you know, let's get people to have a conversation, you know, about it. And, you know, if the book is accurate, adapted that conversation's gonna ensue. Um, and, and David can attest to this, you know, in reading, you know, the Randall Wallace script and other scripts, that when you try to condense the property, the book into, you know, a, a, something that, that's much smaller and can be consumed in, uh, 90 minutes or, or two hours, boy, you sure leave a lot of valuable, uh, parts of the story of the philosophy of the message out that, uh, production,
Speaker 4 00:41:29 Uh, one idea in response to Paul's question, uh, har Harmon is, uh, we have a ton of material, as you know, uh, we've shared a lot of it with, in, in the, uh, development, shared a lot of it in the course of the trilogy earlier. Um, but, you know, explaining episode by episode issue by issue, you know, I'd get all those screen commentaries from the, uh, three parts of the movie and some of those, um, you know, we could adapt it as, as as necessary to say, here's what you just saw and here's what it means. So anyway, that's just an offer. It's down the road. But anyway, onto, um,
Speaker 0 00:42:14 Steven looked like he wanted to say
Speaker 4 00:42:16 Something. Oh, yes, sorry. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:42:19 Yes. Thanks. Uh, the, the project is in, uh, exploratory stage right now, uh, from the business perspective, serious exploration, but can you speak more to the likely, uh, business factors that will go into making a decision about whether to go ahead? You know, in part, you know, Atlas Society is a philosophical organization. Daily Wire has a, an ideological mission as well, but it also has a, has a, has a money minded side as well. So is it going to be, you know, as long as we can raise enough money, we're gonna go ahead and do this. Or is it, uh, starting more from the business perspective that there's a certain profit outlook that needs to be there? And if that can happen, then the, the go ahead will happen.
Speaker 0 00:43:04 That's a good, good question, Steven. And, uh, certainly, um, what I can tell you is, is just, uh, from what I learned from conversations, uh, in, in negotiating, uh, the deal with them. So Daily Wire has raised or has available a lot of money. So we're talking tens of millions of dollars, uh, are available to them to go produce Atlas Shrimp. So, um, so number one, there's no issue with, okay, now that we have the rights, let's go see if we can raise the production budget. So, so what was represented to us is they have plenty of, of resources that they have tied up and secured for, uh, producing this. Um, you know, again, you know, the only thing that, that I've seen is, you know, their, their look, I think they look at, uh, Atlas Shrugged for a couple of reasons, uh, for the Daily Wire.
Speaker 0 00:44:07 Number one is, uh, again, Jeremy and Ben are, are huge fans of the book. And, uh, and, and I believe that, that they think that a quality, faithful adaptation of the book in and of itself will be something very valuable, valuable asset. Um, and, and I think ancillary to that is, uh, if they do do a great job, you know, producing it, it gives the Daily Wire an opportunity to expand its audience. So I think that's what the, uh, what their plan is. But again, I'm not in a position to, uh, to speak on, on their behalf, but that's the gist of the conversations that I've had with them, uh, going into the deal.
Speaker 1 00:44:58 Yeah. Plus they have, uh, the extra money from Crowder now, um, <laugh>. So, uh, Connie, uh, thank you for joining us. You have a question,
Speaker 8 00:45:11 Kind of a question, but more of a comment. I'm just going to say I'm totally stoked about this series coming up, and of course, I'm very stoked about your, your first event, uh, like this in seven years. It's gonna be great, and hopefully we can contribute quite a bit to that, whether it be personnel or whatever the case may be. Um, when I think of the series coming up, I'm hoping they sort of handle it. Like, um, for those who may have watched at the, the Astronaut Wives Club, you know, I think they did a, a pretty good job in going back to the period in time when it was written and, and what had happened. Um, the one critic I see a lot about that show, however, was that, um, they thought it should have been done more seriously than, you know, they, I think they tried to appeal to everyone. So I hope they don't lose, um, lose a, trying to make it so entertaining that everyone would, would enjoy it. I hope they keep it to where the people that are, are really, um, fans of Atlas Shrugged feel like it was covered correctly. But, um, so I guess it was more of a comment than, than anything else. But, um, I just wanna say I'm really stoked for it, and I hope they get some great producers on it. And I hope it's like I said in the vein of like, say the Astronaut Wives Club.
Speaker 0 00:46:46 Well, number one, I think, you know, you raise, uh, you raise something that we deal with on a daily basis as a distribution company, which is, um, people will bring us product and we'll ask 'em, who's your target audience? And if they say everyone, they're really telling us it's no one. And I think, you know, you hit the nail on the head, which is, if the, if the Daily Wire is committed to making a movie to satisfy the fans of Atlas Shrug, they're then, then the whole world's gonna see it. But if they forget about the fads of Atlas Rung and say, we wanna make something, you know, more <inaudible> that Reef a wider audience, so, so on, so forth, uh, probably not a good idea.
Speaker 8 00:47:44 I agree. So that, that's my hope. And, uh, I hope they get a great producer, like they get stuff look or someone like that to, to do it, do justice, but I'm incredibly stoked for it. And, um, unlike some other things, I'm prepared to go into it hating it and saying the book is better, and sometimes I'm proven wrong, and I've got a good feeling about this one.
Speaker 4 00:48:12 <laugh> Good. Um, one thing that, uh, Connie's, um, question reminded me of is that, you know, Atlas Shrug has a, has a definite style, it's a romantic novel, um, with, you know, a big, big story to tell and a big theme to, uh, that's woven into the story, but it's not, um, you know, on the other hand, it's not like a Marvel Comics thing that is just, you know, unbelievable. Uh, it's realistic. You could, it's, it's why people read the book and they think, God, that, that that could happen, or, you know, back in the, uh, 2008 and so they were saying that it is happening. Um, so that's a really hard aesthetic, um, goal to achieve. And, um, I'm wondering if, uh, you know, what you think about that and, and, uh, how, how you think that might, that that aesthetic aspect of it might be achieved with, uh, daily Wire? Are they on board with that?
Speaker 0 00:49:23 Well, I, you know, I, I think that the, the, the answer to that is in the interview of the writer. Yeah. I think that, um, again, you know, we, we made a lot of unforced errors, you know, and, and mistakes in connection with how we executed the Trilogy movies. Um, and sometimes, you know, o one of the mistakes that I made was, we can fix things in Post. You heard that a lot. And for those of you not in the movie business, you know, one of the beautiful things about producing a movie is editors can do incredible things with what you've shot. And so, even though things are not looking perfect during the course of the production of the movie on set, uh, given the amount of money that you're burning through every minute, every hour, sometimes you, you, you compromise by saying, you know what?
Speaker 0 00:50:27 We'll just take care of that problem that we just saw as we were shooting. We'll take care of that in Post. Okay? But if we don't start with a solid foundation in the screenplay, you're not gonna be able to fix it in post. And I think that this is one of the lessons, you know, that, that, that we learned. And I think, you know, this is why David and, and, and Scott, we want, you know, those people who are committed to protecting the integrity of the book, to be sitting at the table when we're talking to the writer, to make certain that their, that, that you are confident and comfortable, but they understand the message, the philosophical message, these themes, these characters, so and so forth that you're talking about. Because that needs to be in the screenplay because we cannot fix those things. Uh,
Speaker 5 00:51:28 Thanks. Thanks, Armon. That's great, Steven. Yeah, I have a, just a follow up question to that. Uh, you know, once the, the Green Light is given and the, the show goes into, uh, inter production, how does the di division of Labor and Balance of power, uh, really work out between producers, directors, writers, uh, you know, they've all got skin in the game, uh, and there's going to be a certain amount of negotiation, but, uh, how realistically does that go?
Speaker 0 00:52:01 So, so it, you know, generally speaking, um, whoever is, is financially responsible tends to have what we call, uh, final Cut. Now, you know, as Steven Spielberg, he, he, that person, you know, gets final cut. In the television world, it's, it's very different because you're starting with, um, with already a vision for the whole show. So you're not really going to allow one of the creatives, such as a writer or director, uh, take you off of the path that you're on. You know, the, the, the great thing about, uh, the, you know, Atlas Shrugged and, and what Aion has done is she's done a great job. We've got 10 chapters and three parts. I mean, the roadmap is there, okay, <laugh>. So it's just a function of staying committed to that roadmap, uh, in connection with what we're doing with Daily Wire. Those final decisions, uh, are not gonna be in our hands.
Speaker 0 00:53:07 They're gonna be in the hands of Daily Wire. However, you know, what, what we are hoping and aspiring for is by getting communities such as the Atlas Society to bringing in elements, uh, such as David and Scott, and giving them a seat at the table, we will keep them reminded and, and hopefully they will know that, that the fans, the people who are gonna go consume the book, um, you know, they, they want you to stay on track and, uh, they want you to deliver the movie that, uh, as close as they can to what was playing in your head as you were reading this book. You know, because it was a great movie, otherwise people wouldn't continue to read this book, you know, it, it, it really has, uh, quite a powerful, uh, impact on people. So, you know, our, our only role could be a, a kind of a minor check, but ultimately those decisions, Steve, are gonna be, uh, made by the Daily Wire people.
Speaker 1 00:54:11 Great. Um, well, I wanna, uh, bring, uh, Brian, uh, have Brian asked your question. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 9 00:54:19 Hey, thanks. I have, I have two quick questions. Uh, first one, has there been any talk of doing any other books like, uh, you know, either Anthem or, or Fountainhead with, with the Daily Wire? And, and then second question is, uh, if that's an easy answer, you can jump in.
Speaker 0 00:54:37 It is no, and, and for a couple reasons. Um, the, we just don't control those rights. I see. And, um, and so, you know, o other studios or, or, or people have them, and we're also, uh, getting to a point during some of our lifetimes, uh, that these are gonna fall into the public domain. So at that point, um, you know, a anybody would be able to, uh, exploit them.
Speaker 9 00:55:06 Yeah. My, my, my second question is, if I recall watching, uh, an interview with, with Ben Shapiro, he talked about how he liked Atlas Shrugged, but he liked, uh, Iran's, I guess, uh, economics, but not necessarily, you know, her view of, of romance and relationships and all that. So I'm wondering if his personal, um, you know, let's say preferences or, or likes and dislikes of the novel will find its way into the, you know, into the, the, the, the, the production. You know, like, will, will it be more primarily about the, the economic, uh, you know, themes that run throughout the novel and less so about the relationships, the things that he, you know, likes and dislikes?
Speaker 0 00:55:53 That's, that's a good question. Um, obviously I cannot speak on Ben's behalf, but I can't tell you that before we concluded the deal with, uh, daily Wire, this concern was actually, you know, raised directly by the estate. Uh, we did get a letter back from Jeremy Boing, who's the coce O I think Ben is, uh, is no longer, has an official officer capacity. I, I know that he's still an owner and has a lot of influence, obviously, at, at Daley Wire. But, uh, they, they committed in writing that they, that they had no interest in imposing, um, any of their conservative philosophies, religious beliefs or those things, but would stay true to the book. So, um, so that's in writing on a, on a piece of paper. So hopefully the answer to your question is absolutely no, Ben has no intention of doing that. But, uh, but, but again, um, I'm only saying that based on, uh, on, on the paper that we got from Daily Wire before we concluded the deal.
Speaker 10 00:57:08 Thank you.
Speaker 1 00:57:09 Great. I think it, it says a lot that he, um, that the Daily Wire is using Atlas Shrug to try to attract new subscribers, and that itself is, is part of the biggest part of the story. Um, I'm curious, you alluded to, uh, seeing their facility in Nashville and just, uh, thoughts generally about what they're building there? You know, they're trying to, uh, some people called it like a conservative Hollywood or something, you know, where they're just trying to get into all sorts of different entertainment venues. They've got some big names in the stable, I don't know if you had a chance to observe. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:57:50 So, so, so again, my, my experience there is very, very limited. So I've really been, uh, watching what they're doing in the entertainment space. So they've created a subscription model, so, so they're now needing to provide content to keep those subscribers happy. So they have a lot of content that is, uh, uh, on, on the conservative side and, and those sorts of things. But also what I've seen is, you know, they've released, I think now five movies, uh, that are, are really just movies that don't have any particular message, not conservative, not religious. I mean, uh, one or two of them I think were, uh, consi, I would consider them in the horror genre of that sort of thing. So, uh, they're looking at doing, uh, some programming for, uh, family level. So I don't think that they are committed on their, uh, on this kind of secondary content that it has to be something that speaks to the philosophical tenets of Ben or Jeremy.
Speaker 0 00:59:11 I, I think what they're, what they're looking to do is saying, Hey, people are giving us money every month. We wanna just, you know, give them things that are not necessarily things that Hollywood would deliver to them, but would be at the same, uh, caliber of production quality. So, you know, I, I I I, which is unique cuz in the sense that, you know, obviously they need to keep the, the people who have come to them for conservative content and, and this, uh, religious content. Obviously they wanna keep them in there, but I don't think that they're solely committed to that, that they, uh, they have released and are releasing things that, that have no tie to either one of those. So, uh, while there's, there's great fear that Atlas Shrugged being under that particular umbrella, uh, may not necessarily appeal to the, uh, wide fan base of people who have read and love Atlas Shrug. I, I don't, I think that they're looking to provide content that, uh, doesn't have the conservative or religious, uh, messaging burned into it.
Speaker 1 01:00:28 Great. Uh, we're glad to have, uh, senior Scholar Richard Salzman join us. Richard.
Speaker 11 01:00:35 Yeah, I just wanted to re reiterate the earlier comment, uh, or elaborate on the, the one about Ben Shapiro and his potential involvement in this, because there is a very disturbing passage of an interview he had with Dave Ruben when Ruben asked him specifically what he thought of I Rand and Objectivism, and he said, the philosophy is garbage. So, and there's about a two minute assessment which go, which goes downhill even from garbage. And, uh, so I'm worried his, I think the earlier question I was worried, uh, about his involvement and it's, it's easy to find. All you have to do is Google search Ben Shapiro, Ayn Rand Garbage. So, I mean, that isn't not, that is not a subtle, uh, view of the philosophy. So I'm worried, I really am excited about the project. I, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but, um, that is on record and it's in the public and I'm worried about it.
Speaker 12 01:01:33 Hey, th this is Ja, uh, Richard, I think that's totally fair. Um, I think it's also worth noting, and sorry, I've only been able to tune in, into and out a bit to the conversation, uh, that he is coce o with Jeremy Boring. Um, and Boring has essentially said that there would not be a Daily Wire Plus, uh, without Atlas Shrug that, uh, it was Atlas Shrug, his, his vision to bring Ayn Rand seminal work, quote, my vision to bring Ayn Rand's seminal work on the creative power of economic freedom and the terrible consequences of its loss to the Scream as a premium series. So that's what inspired his decision to launch Daily Wire Plus. So I'm, you know, hopeful that they understand as, as I think I tried to argue in my, uh, op-ed can you of God and I Rand that there are many, uh, even, you know, religious conservatives who, for whom shrugged is, is a, a major inspiration in their life. And, um, maybe they didn't quite, uh, integrate all of the messages, uh, that she was trying to impart. And certainly they wouldn't agree with, um, aspects of objectivism. But I think it's, it's a, it's a, a work that has a powerful appeal, um, across the spectrum. So I guess we'll see.
Speaker 1 01:03:14 Thanks.
Speaker 4 01:03:16 I'm gonna, uh, jump in on, on Richard's question. It's one that I've heard many times, uh, at since the news about this, uh, project came out. And, um, you know, there's, there's so many traps that people can fall into. One of them is the one that Richard mentioned I'd love economic freedom. Uh, I don't know about the romantic stuff. You know, it's one of the very essential short list of essential themes in Atlas is how the mind body dichotomy when you get rid of it, it applies in parallel ways to sex and romance and to business. Both involve intelligence, spirituality both involves something physical. And if you don't get both sides of that, you've missed some of the drama and some of the philosophical sheer power of the novel. So, you know, I, I'm, I'm not projecting anything and you know, we'll have a shot in talking with the writer and, you know, I'm not worried. I'm just saying that it is an issue.
Speaker 1 01:04:31 Yeah. And I think it's also possible that, uh, a lot of, uh, people on the cultural right, uh, post covid have maybe seen Atla shrugged in a new light in the face of an administrative surveillance state. So, uh, you know, um, we'll see what happens. Um, I'm, uh, this is for, uh, Harmon or Scott, you know, I know that part of what was going on with the Atlas Shrugged movies was this pushing to a deadline. And I'm, I'm just curious, uh, just if, if any of the old, uh, you know, schism stuff that's been going on, uh, played a role in, did it, did it hamper production at all? <affirmative>, uh, some of the old, uh, you know, where there, there were people kind of chomping at the bit for the movie not to be made in time?
Speaker 0 01:05:28 Well, um, I, I, I can only tell you, you know, what, what I experienced going through the process, and then what happened afterwards. Okay. So when we, when we went out to, for example, cast movies, so and so forth, there, there were certain apprehensions from lead talent to be associated with it. Okay. Uh, but we also weren't in a position to go pay, uh, you know, an a-list type actor to be in the movie. So, you know, we, we, we did obviously successfully cast the movie. And what I can say is nearly all of the leads who were in the three movies have all gone on to do either television series or other big projects. So it doesn't seem like the argument that we were confronted when some people are apprehensive about working on the project, oh, how's this gonna impact me? To those that did participate, it had no impact.
Speaker 0 01:06:45 In fact, many of 'em went on to do, uh, things that were incredibly lucrative for them. What we did see, however, was, uh, and, and again, this, this was our fault in the people that, that we selected, that, that they weren't supportive of the movie, that they didn't really understand, you know, the, the, the characters that they were playing or the philosophical message of the movie that they were acting in. And so to avoid that mistake, that's why in negotiating this deal with Daley Wire, we've tried to put in some guardrails. So we don't make that mistake. I mean, wouldn't it be fantastic for Dagney, the, the, the, the woman cast to play dag to be so proud and happy to do it, that she becomes this phenomenal spokesman for Atla? And, uh, and, and we didn't do that and, and we didn't find those people.
Speaker 0 01:07:49 Um, and, and again, you know, David had mentioned it, you know, one excuse, you know, was, was a time crunch, but, um, daily Wire doesn't have that today. And certainly it's one of those things that we're going to, you know, what, whatever we can do, the limited amount of approvals and, and consultation rights that we have to try to make certain that we, we get people who are just so excited because of their familiarity and passion for Atlas Shrug to be part of its production. And I think if we can, uh, if we can achieve that, then the community of Atlas Shrug fans are gonna be really happy, uh, with, with the end product. Cuz not only will we have these, you know, new ambassadors, but they'll also have a really deep understanding and appreciation for the words that we're, they're being asked to, to recite and the rules that they've been cast to play.
Speaker 1 01:08:57 That's great. It's interesting, I heard something from Gary Cooper after he saw the screening in the Fountain Head. He had a similar experience where he felt he didn't capture the character. Right. Um, go ahead, David.
Speaker 4 01:09:10 Yeah, I just, it's another question. Uh, but Harmon and, and Scott, um, as you know, we wrestled with this, uh, with the trilogy. Atlas Shrug has a number of l relatively long speeches, uh, the money speech that Francisco gives, uh, the speech, uh, Hank ridden gives at his trial, and then the, uh, the mega speech gold speech. And you know, obviously though you can't do them all at length, at full length in a movie. Um, so I, I remember, I, I worked on all of 'em with screenwriters and just condensing those into a viable, um, something that captured the theme and the point in the plot, but not, uh, you know, keeping the time limited. Uh, I guess this is an issue for the screenwriter, so I, it may be premature to talk about it, I just, what if I'd be interested in any thoughts you've given to that, uh, at this point
Speaker 0 01:10:11 For me? None <laugh>, you know, that, that you're, you're absolutely right. It, it, it's up to, it is up to the, to the screenwriter and, and the one, you know, the one thing that is different between what John wanted to do with his opportunity to produce a trilogy and what the Daily Wire's doing is because they are a streaming platform and in complete control of their domain, for lack of a better term, uh, they're, they're not subject to time limitations. So I think, you know, if we're able to put together the right elements, we're not gonna have someone, uh, barking orders at them saying, you know what, this is just too long, you know, uh, and, and, or this needs to be 42 minutes and 40 seconds because we need commercial breaks and things of that sort. So hopefully they'll feel that they have the creative freedom to make certain that they deliver all of the moments in the book that have such important and memorable meaning to the fans of the book, because they're, they're under no constraints to try to do it in some limited amount of time. So hopefully, you know, that change in dynamic, David will, um, you know, give them, uh, some confidence, uh, knowing that, uh, you know, they, they don't need to, you know, in a sense, rewrite edit, well, let's get rid of this. You know, they should just do, uh, what, what they feel is, uh, is is the best way to accurately, um, you know, adapt those particular scenes, you know, into the book. Pardon me, in, into the, the program that they're producing.
Speaker 1 01:12:20 Great. Um, yeah, uh, two was my favorite one. I think, uh, the, uh, opening with an airplane chase is, uh, actually just a very cool, uh, <laugh> way to do it and then do a flashback. Um, I'm curious about, you know, how that came up with it. And also, you know, the biggest criticism is probably that the actors changed, uh, throughout the movies. I guess it's just part of logistics that they ask for more for the sequel, and that made it less feasible.
Speaker 0 01:12:54 I, I, I, I think that the simple answer is just one of the mistakes. Yeah. That, that, that, that we made, um, you know, in, in the decisions that we made. And that there, there really isn't much more of an explanation than not a good idea, not a good idea. Um, in, in connection with, with, um, with your observation about the beginning of part two, you know, one of, one of the things that, uh, cuz I remember when we were dealing with that particular, uh, issue, um, wait a second, did part, yeah. So part two started with, with, uh, with, with the plane crash. And, and the reason for that is, you know, as Dagney is going along in, in her adventure to find the adventure of the motor, all of a sudden she shows up at an airfield and whips out her credit card and then gets a plane and flies away.
Speaker 0 01:13:47 And, uh, without a lot of context, you know, what, what we wanted to do was just establish the fact that Dagney knew how to fly, you know, how to fly. So by the time in the story, she shows up at the airfield and she gets into the airplane, the audience already knows, she, she, she knows how to fly. So it was, it was just trying to deal with that, that issue and try to create something, uh, you know, a compelling first act. So, uh, get people into the story. And then, uh, we, we'd wrap that up later on in the story when she is, uh, uh, flying after, um, the, the, you know, flying, I forget the name of the character to, to, uh, that, that ultimately are in gold sculpt.
Speaker 4 01:14:33 You know, speaking of the beginnings, Harmon, I can't resist remembering the, uh, and asking you about the, uh, beginning of part one, the train, the actual derailment. And I think I've always been amus about how you got that footage. Uh, can you tell that story again?
Speaker 0 01:15:00 Sure. Sorry about that. Yeah. So, um, so, so in the production of movies, there is kind of your primary production group, and then they have something called a second unit, which typically is just a cameraman, a couple producers and, and, uh, other people. And, you know, we knew that we were going to be faced with building, uh, the John Goldline. And so we sent out a crew, uh, to see if they could find somewhere in America where they were replacing rail tracks. And, um, this, this wasn't, uh, you know, this was 2010, so it's about, you know, almost a decade after, what, nine 11. And so we're still a little skittish. So here's this crew out there. They, they finally found, uh, in Virginia, I think it was, is this, uh, group from Union Pacific. They were repairing or replacing the, the rail tracks. So here's a group in a van, and they're on the side of a road, and they open up the door and, you know, they've got a camera pointing now at this train in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 0 01:16:13 And of course, the guy, the engineer of the train calls whoever's security, it says, you know, it looks like somebody is trying or about to do something to this train, had no really idea what was going on <laugh>. And so, uh, so they were constantly having to keep one step ahead of security. And then, uh, and, and one of the scenes actually, we, we, uh, one of the, one of the persons on the, uh, the crew was very attractive, uh, woman, and, you know, she was distracting people trying to get them out of the shot so that the hidden cameras, so these are all essentially, uh, footage that was generated, you know, uh, on public land, but, uh, very gorilla style. So, uh, they, they went out for 30 days. They brought us back just incredible footage, uh, on a very low budget. And then again, what we were talking about earlier, kind of part of the magic of, of movie making happens in post-production, and somehow they weave this footage to look like it was, uh, organically, you know, part of the movie. So, um, uh, lots of, lots of fun, lots of tricks. I know, David, you spent a lot of time and Scott spent a lot of time on the set. It's very fascinating. Uh, it's a little like watching paint drive, but, uh, some of the things that we were able to do with the crew, uh, such as that really, I think, uh, gave a nice production value to, to the movie that we wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.
Speaker 4 01:17:53 Oh, yeah, that opening, uh, especially when we showed a, a preview of it in, um, I guess early 2011, um, everyone was bowled over and just that train scene, I just, but I didn't, you know, I'm an Army Tower guy, I didn't know how you did that. And now that I know, it's just, it's so amazing and so funny. But anyway, that, that's a side point. Um, Scott, back to you, uh, uh, although Scott, if you would, um, if you could put up that, um, uh, book of ours, uh, got the shrug, the novel, the films, the, uh, philosophy. Okay,
Speaker 1 01:18:34 I'll get the Amazon link back up there. I think Steven had a question.
Speaker 4 01:18:38 Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Speaker 5 01:18:40 My question I know is, uh, is, is downstream, there's not gonna be a good answer to it, but everybody likes to play the casting game. Is there, at this stage, kind of a strategic decision about whether to go with unknowns, uh, to make this production kind of unique and distinctive, or to try to get a list actors involved?
Speaker 0 01:19:06 That's another one of these questions, unfortunately. Uh, no, I don't, I don't have the answer, uh, for you on that, but, but there is a quasi answer, and the quasi answer is, daily wires not under any, um, pressure or requirement with respect to anything regarding the movie. So normally, you know, an independent company, uh, such as one John, uh, had created Atlas distribution. If we were wanted to get a major studio, for example, to distribute the movie casting a recognizable name would be absolutely required. Okay? But if you're not needing a third party to come in and support the movie from a distribution standpoint, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So, um, I, I think that daily wires aspirations, especially given, uh, the budget that we believe the movie, uh, is, is gonna, is gonna cost them, uh, certainly will want to go after talent that squarely fits the role roles as well as, you know, have the acting chops to really deliver these characters the way, uh, I'm, you know, depicted them in the book. So they're not gonna be restricted to going after perhaps any lister, but I do think that they are committed to getting really quality actors, um, who who can authentically play these characters. So that is by those castings.
Speaker 1 01:21:06 Great. Uh, yeah, someone in the chat said, get Travolta. Uh, we'll see how that plays out. But, um,
Speaker 0 01:21:12 <laugh> <laugh>,
Speaker 1 01:21:14 We, um, I, I'm curious, you know, just, uh, another scene I really liked was the, uh, rear and steel plant disaster and Francisco coming in to save the day. Um, I'm curious if you've had even high level conversations about what might be the, you know, toughest scenes to shoot, or just even from your experience with the first run, what were the toughest, you know, is the speech gonna be its own episode? Any, um, thoughts on, uh, Harmon or, uh, Scott is gone going?
Speaker 0 01:21:51 Yeah, so, so I, I can address that. So, so I can't speak to, you know, really anything that daily wire's gonna do, but, but I can say this, and over the course of John's ownership of the rights, one of the things that has dramatically changed in the movie business is the cost and execution of visual effects. So one of the issues, and, and I knew this was an issue when I met John many years ago in 2010, was, you know, the, the cost, for example, of doing the Rearden Metal bridge, okay? Because in our minds when we're reading the book, I mean, we're, we're, we're trying to imagine what, what does this look like, right? Uh, that this miraculous metal, so it doesn't have to have the same, um, engineering necessarily as, as normal metal might have going over a great expanse, so on and so forth.
Speaker 0 01:22:56 You know, what would this look like, uh, so that when the John gall line is going over this bridge for the first time, the audience really does sense? Well, I sure hope it holds, you know, sort of thing. And, uh, you know, given now how inexpensive, uh, visual effects are, it really, it's now just really up to your imagination, you know, there. So I think that hopefully, especially again, with, with the, the sort of budget that they're talking about, the visual effects, they're, they're really gonna be able to go in and capture some of those things that maybe when we were reading the book, maybe we imagined. Um, and, and that 10 or 15 or 20 years ago from a movie standpoint would've been very expensive to execute. Those challenges essentially are gone. So things like creating, uh, of the world, uh, that, that was back during the time when, uh, I wrote the book the 1950s.
Speaker 0 01:24:01 And, and in that, you know, is actually not that expensive anymore to, to execute. So the excuses that John was faced with when the studios and others were kicking the tires, which was namely, you know, the cost. I think, you know, if I remember correctly, the Lionsgate version with Angelina, Joel Lee, and potentially Brad Pit, he was like 75 million, ok. Which today doesn't sound like very much money, but 25 years ago a lot of money, especially for a small, uh, kind of second tier studio like that. Um, and so now, you know, the, those limitations, uh, essentially have gone. And in fact, you know, one of the things that we did, uh, in part two was we built our own visual effects shop, which essentially just buying a bunch of computers and getting graphic artists, and because we had hundreds of visual effects shots. So I think we could, you know, anticipate that in executing this production, if the commitment is to do, uh, as, as accurate to the book as possible, you, they're gonna be able to do that. But it's gonna, there's gonna be a lot of visual effects. So it's just gonna be figuring out how do we, uh, trick our eyes and braids to see an actor in, in something that's probably, uh, completely virtual and digital.
Speaker 1 01:25:36 Great. I, um, you know, you brought up something and just as a kind of, uh, last question that, um, you know, bringing everyone into a masterclass and getting them into that, I think that I'm obviously good and great, and you want them to have passion. I did read that, um, you know, producing the movie was, uh, almost somewhat of an you, you knew of Rand, but it was somewhat, you know, you, you hadn't really devoured the book before getting involved, and I, I'm just, you know, you've got it done where other people were unable to get it done. And I'm just curious if, if maybe that being an outsider at first, uh, helped at all.
Speaker 0 01:26:21 Uh, boy <laugh>, that's, uh, yeah. So, so, so there's a lot of things going on in that question. Um, yes. So, so, so, so the first thing that I told John was, you know, at, at that point, and this is in early April of, of 2010, was John, I've not read the book. He's, I don't need to read. I, I need, I need you to make sure we get this production going by June 10th, so I don't lose the rights. So, um, so, so then I got the book, oh my God, this is, you know, well, but there's no way, John, we can do all of this. So, you know, the first decision was we gotta just choose, you know, choose a a a a piece of this and we'll go for it. And, and, you know, the question was, you know, where, where should it end?
Speaker 0 01:27:17 Um, and should it end at, uh, at the Rearden bridge, at the, pardon me, at the Rearden metal bridge? Or do we take it all the way through to, uh, you know, why it's, uh, burning up his, his oil fields? And, uh, ultimately of course, we decided just to do, you know, part one there, um, I, I think the issue was just time. The compression of time forced some decisions that, um, impacted the end result. And, and we can just kinda leave it at that Daily Wire, fortunately, is not under that gun today. They've got two years, they've gotta start by November of 2024. Okay? What I was told recently was, the track that they're on is to get the first season written by the end of the year, open a production office, the beginning of the year, start shooting in March, 2023, the first set of episodes.
Speaker 0 01:28:28 So if they give themselves that window of time, there's no excuse for them not to do a great job. Uh, especially with somebody experienced is that's gonna give that writer ample time to really think through, um, how to, um, to, to create a compelling screenplay to be shot. But when you compress that time there, um, you just start with paper cuts, and you know, what happens when you get too many paper cuts. So, um, one, one of the things you know, that, that we're pushing is don't, don't make the mistake that we made and wait for the last minute. Now, you know, as David pointed out, John had many, many years, uh, in, in which to get this thing going and had many, many false starts by, you know, prestigious studios and so on and so forth. So, uh, in, in really moving forward with Daily Wire, again, some of the things that give us confidence that they're gonna be able to proceed, that they're not gonna have casting requirements like a studio might. Um, they've already raised the money there. Uh, the team, the base team that they have, have a deep familiarity, passion for the book. So I think those three things, um, you know, put 'em in a great position to be able to succeed if in fact they don't, uh, you know, succumb to the temptation of reimagining something or, you know, imposing what they think as opposed to what I wrote.
Speaker 4 01:30:16 Uh, Armen, can I just jump in and clarify the schedule for a minute? Um, you said that, um, by November, 2024, that's for the whole series to be done?
Speaker 0 01:30:30 No, that's it. They just need to start by then
Speaker 4 01:30:33 The, uh,
Speaker 0 01:30:34 The start. So, so they're, they're, they're a year ahead of schedule. They have two years of part of their option, but again, in my most recent conversation, they believe they're gonna be able to start production in March of 2023. So, so what will happen, David, is, uh, especially in the context of a series, they'll be one writer that will, uh, typically come up with a, a treatment, perhaps, uh, you know, a Bible, perhaps one episode, uh, teleplay with an outline for the others. And then you open what's called the writing room, where you'll have a number of writers, anywhere from two to six or seven writers who then will be going to work based on that Bible, or, you know, in, in this instance, we have the book. The book is essentially the Bible, uh, and, and so you'll have a lot of people able to work on creating those, uh, teleplays as they're going through, uh, the production. So, um, I don't expect them to do some of the things we did, which is, you know, I think they'll be using the same cast, so they're gonna wanna keep those people working until there's a nice, uh, organic break in the storytelling, which is typically between seasons, um, there, and then be able to keep continuity going from, uh, the first episode all the way through to the last episode. So essentially, once they crank up that engine, you know, it, it, it'll take them across the finish line.
Speaker 4 01:32:16 Okay. So, Harmon, I just wanna clarify, you said, uh, you referred to March 23? Uh, that was a month ago.
Speaker 0 01:32:23 24. Yeah. Pardon me. March 24th, sorry, sorry, sorry. March 24th. My bad.
Speaker 4 01:32:29 Uh, so that's,
Speaker 0 01:32:30 Now I know why I confused you,
Speaker 4 01:32:32 <laugh>. Yeah. Great. I said, whoa, are we going back in time? Is, is there a time here? Um,
Speaker 0 01:32:40 No.
Speaker 4 01:32:42 So March, uh, March, uh, next year, a year from now is, uh, when they would expect to have a, uh, a script for, uh, the first season.
Speaker 0 01:32:54 No, that should be by the end of the year.
Speaker 1 01:32:58 What could, if everything goes right, what could we see as a possible, you know, premier date?
Speaker 0 01:33:06 Um, okay, so yeah, I'm just, this is, uh, and
Speaker 1 01:33:10 No, we won't hold you
Speaker 0 01:33:11 Then. Real, real guessing on this. So if they started, if, if, if they started in, in March, uh, and, and again, this goes back to an earlier question, which is, well, how are they gonna release these? So, you know, if they're gonna just release them episode by episode, as opposed to, here are three episodes, or here's all 10. So depending on that decision, um, six to seven months after they start, they should have the first one completed.
Speaker 4 01:33:44 Okay?
Speaker 0 01:33:44 Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll start, you know, exhibiting them, it just depends on what their ultimate release strategy is. So I think we could say confidently if they, if they keep on their current schedule, there should be something for everyone to Sharon enjoy, uh, during 2024.
Speaker 1 01:34:05 Okay. Something to look forward to. Well, um, I wanna thank you so much for, uh, doing this, for sharing your insights for, uh, getting the first series done, as well as, uh, Steven and David, uh, for your questions, Richard, as well, for your insights. Uh, everyone who joined us and, uh, will be, uh, hopefully, uh, you know, a, a source to go to for updated information as this thing rolls out. And, you know, we all, uh, are rooting for it to be a big success. So thank you again. And, uh, maybe we'll have you back on as, uh, some of these dates get closer.
Speaker 0 01:34:44 It sounds great. Just, just know that, um, you know, Dave, we're, we're a huge fan of David's, uh, obviously an incredible resource there. Uh, and, uh, when we have a seat at the table, we, our intention is to have David sitting next to us. So, uh, at least you'll have, uh, from an emeritus standpoint, uh, you know, uh, uh, Atlas, a member of the, the Atlas community, uh, there, uh, over, you know, watching what, what's going on in, in participating.
Speaker 1 01:35:19 That's great. You getting it done? Thank you. Up <laugh>. So, uh, great. Well, thank you. And, uh, we will, uh, we will see you all, uh, at our next events next week.
